Question for Defd (page 4)

shadow

Old Soul, Hi! How are you? I'm still lurking here from time to time. Don't want to interrupt your discussion with defd, but as I recall, our previous discussion kind of trailed off without a conclusion. Maybe there is no conclusion. I confess that I'm not really familiar with defd, so don't know what the deal is with this thread, but if you want to resurrect any of our past discussions, let me know. best wishes, shadow

OldSoul

Shadow,

Absolutely! I have missed you, in fact. How are you? We can discuss on this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/98798/1.ashx

That one isn't tainted by "a friend in need", we can start from scratch more or less. As I recall, you admitted there was no Scriptural support per se, beyond support for organizational arrangements being put in place by men and used by God. We can pick up there, if you like.

Respectfully,

OldSoul

carla

The frustration of unanswered question should be expected. This happens at home as well, and the few times I met with elders. The minute you ask a question they would rather not think about they ask, why are you asking that? where did you come up this? some apostate? The source of the question should not matter at all if you claim to be God's mouthpiece. No question should be too tough. or too thought provoking. If you claim that the Bible is the source of your doctrine and can back up everything the wt spews out, then what is the problem with asking for scriptural backing to a question?

I think jw's must have so much inner turmoil, on one hand they know the question may be valid but the wt has not really explained to them why they should think a certain way yet. So they get angry. Simply believe because we are God's org. And why are you God's org? Cause the org said so.

Today, all I can feel for jw's is pity. (subject to change without notice)

Sorry your having a bad morning dfed.

carla

TD

So u wont here much more of me this morning. Having to deal with people like OLD SOUL and there crazy " THOUGHT PROVOKING" (right) questions are driving me insane today.

"Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity."

mrsjones5

TD, you've been reading Orwell's "1984" havent you?

21. Crimestop

In Oceania there is no law. Thoughts and actions which, when detected, mean certain death are not formally forbidden, and the endless purges, arrests, tortures, imprisonments, and vaporizations are not inflicted as punishment for crimes which have actually been committed, but are merely the wiping-out of persons who might perhaps commit a crime at some time in the future.
A Party member is required to have not only the right opinions, but the right instincts. Many of the beliefs and attitudes demanded of him are never plainly stated, and could not be stated without laying bare the contradictions inherent in Ingsoc. If he is a person naturally orthodox (in Newspeak a goodthinker), he will in all circumstances know, without taking thought, what is the true belief or the desirable emotion. But in any case an elaborate mental training, undergone in childhood and grouping itself round the Newspeak words crimestop, blackwhite, and doublethink, makes him unwilling and unable to think too deeply on any subject whatever.
A Party member is expected to have no private emotions and no respites from enthusiasm. He is supposed to live in a continuous frenzy of hatred of foreign enemies and internal traitors, triumph over victories and self-abasement before the power and wisdom of the Party. The discontents produced by his bare, unsatisfying life are deliberately turned outwards and dissipated by such devices as the Two Minutes Hate, and the speculations which might possibly induce a sceptical or rebellious attitude are killed in advance by his early acquired inner discipline.
The first and simplest stage in the discipline, which can be taught even to young children, is called, in Newspeak, crimestop. Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity. But stupidity is not enough. On the contrary, orthodoxy in the full sense demands a control over one's own mental processes as complete as that of a contortionist over his body. Oceanic society rests ultimately on the belief that BIG BROTHER (Jehovah) is omnipotent and that the Party (The Society) is infallible.

Big Dog

I see this with my sister, any time we get into it and I start asking some hard questions, ones she for obvious reasons doesn't want to think about I see her start with the typical objections: These issues are irrelevent, this is just argumentive, its not going anywhere, and the one that makes me the saddest, I don't need to address this stuff, I know what I believe.

Sometimes I feel like a thug, I mean, I can watch it in her face, its right there to see, an almost physical anxiety and panic that grips her when she starts being herded someplace she doesn't want to go.

Defd, I understand man, being asked hard questions is no fun, and that's not just limited to matters of religion. Ask a pregnant mother about what they will do if they find out their fetus is suffering from some dread disease and you will get the same reaction, its just not someplace they want to go if they don't have to.

Soledad

I do too jh. But to be honest i am in a bad mood this morning. So u wont here much more of me this morning. Having to deal with people like OLD SOUL and there crazy " THOUGHT PROVOKING" (right) questions are driving me insane today.

Shame on Old Soul! How dare you try to make him THINK!

Just admit it Defd. You're stumped.

I quit!

Yesterday was a big eye opener for me concerning alot of people in here. There are a bunch of CRY BABIES in here.

If there are cry babies in here who made them cry?

The Watchtower may want to consider a couple of verses from the book they claim to adhere to:

Math 18:5-6: And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me. But if anyone causes one of these little who trust in me to lose faith, it would be better for that person to be thrown into the sea with with a large milstone tied around the neck.

defd

Defd, I understand man, being asked hard questions is no fun, and that's not just limited to matters of religion.

Big dog, I am not afraid to answer ANY question. I do not claim to know ALL the answers. Just because I REFUSE to address a question from someone doesnt mean I am afraid or stumped. If I dont know I will say, " I DONT KNOW," I have in the past here. When I refuse to answer a ? from someone it is because I DISCERNED there reason WHY they are asking. If I feel, and I say, If I FEEL like it is for the purpose of only to argue, I will not answer, Even you MUST admit that there are some people here, who like to ask ? for the sole purpose of arguing and i am not down for that. It is to easy to get caught up in it, which I have been doing with some lately. So I am gonna curb that and the only way to do that is to turn down foolish questioning that only produces fights!

2TIM 2:23 "Further, turn down foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing they produce fights."

mrsjones5

2 Tim 2:24:

And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

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