Real Christians.....

by Honesty 74 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  jaffacake

  Q

  - do you accept a sabbath, baptism, need for prayer etc..? Just interested. When do we cease to be Christian and move to free love floating - is there a bare minimum required to be Christian.

  Whilst I agree with LT's summary, I am very unhippyish. I believe in sacrements like baptism, need for prayer etc. However I reject unbiblical notions taught by fundamentalist religions such as the verbal inerrancy of scripture, or how they select one relatively modern theory of atonement and impose it on others. I am unsure about some other fundie teachings, but the point I would make is that they have no firm scriptural basis for claiming certain doctrines as being fundamental to Christian faith. Just my two-penneth.
• 

  jgnat

  Qcmbr, I am compelled to respond to this comment of yours:

  Real christians are those who try to do God's word. Anyone else is by definition an imposter.

  I have been accused of this, in depth, lately. So you can understand my sensitivity to this issue. Way back when I was investigating the roots of JW'ism and my own faith, I took a good look at Orthodoxy and the Nicene Creed. The JW's say the rest of Christendom got it wrong and rejected the creed. Most of the rest of Christianity has kept faith to the creed, saying it was the best defence against the heresies that were dividing Christendom at the time. The whole concept of Orthodoxy was, "what are the marks of a Christian"? So we can spot the frauds.

  I tried looking for a similar short-list of beliefs for JW's and really didn't find it. AlanF helped me see what the core doctrine of the JW's is. "Believe everything the Faithful and Discreet Slave says." Any JW who denies this doctrine is by definition, not a JW any more. If the WTBTS directed that blood transfusions are no longer considered "eating blood", faithful JW's would adjust their thinking tomorrow. If the WTBTS directed that Jesus has visibly returned and is a monkey in the Moscow Zoo, faithful JW's would have to adjust their thinking.

  To try and follow everything literally as written in the bible leads to much error, in my opinion. What are the principles and foundation of our beliefs? Be true to those. Everything else follows. I am still an Orthodox Christian. I follow the Nicene Creed. I am no imposter.

  http://www.apologeticsindex.org/o00.html#orthodoxy
• 

  Qcmbr

  Its definately an interesting thing - what are the boundaries of Christianity. When do we cross those and become something else.
  
  Thief on the cross.
  
  'Today thou shalt be with me in Paradise' - I guess I have to ask you what you think that means?
  
  If Paradise is Heaven then you have a very strong point. If it isn't then you don't. I'll tell you my answer after you tell me yours hehe.
• 

  Qcmbr

  Hi jgnat - I would never categorise you as an imposter - I figure if you are trying to do God's word then that's the best you can do - if your doing the opposite then your an imposter. Let me give you one example that crys out to me:
  
  When a person claims to be a Christian and then abuses kids / beats up a spouse / rapes etc.. case in point the priests of various faiths who abuse kids - not really a christian despite all the 'worldy' credentials and the proper clobber.
• 

  LittleToe

  Erm.. "God's Word" is a person, not a tome...

  If you truly have Christ, and since "God is love", most of the other things occur spontaneously. Didn't you know this?
• 

  Qcmbr

  What things?
• 

  kid-A

  Were among the first to respond to the Tsunami of 2004 and Hurricane Katrina with food, water, shelter, clothing, comfort, etc. and provided relief efforts to every person they came in contact with regardless of religious beliefs.

  -What is the underlying point of this statement? Several of my ATHEIST friends flew down to new orleans and physically helped out with the relief effort. Countless MUSLIM and BUDDHIST nations offered supplies, financial assistance and aid to the Katrina survivors. I can assure you, being a 'real christian' is not a prerequisite for showing love to your fellow man.
• 

  Qcmbr

  I'm being a pain I know. I think that the idea is nice - if you are filled with Love you'll do the right thing all the time. I just think that maybe that's a bit wooly.
• 

  LittleToe

  On the subject of paradise, the word is only used three times:

  1. Luke 23:43
  2. 2Cor. 12:4
  3. Rev.2:7

  Jaffa:
  Whilst I agree that various sacraments are useful as strengthening "means of grace", they are not IMHO the basis of salvation. Otherwise you're gonna have to condemn the thief, which Jesus didn't...
• 

  LittleToe

  Only because you're a legalist at heart...