Watchtower Gives Up Explaining 607 BCE Date!

by VM44 239 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Hellrider

  I foresee a growing problem with the 1914 date as 2014 approaches...it is going to be increasingly harder to convince people that when Jesus talked about "the last days", he really meant "the last centuries"...

  That`s what I thought too. I left for good around 1990, and only recently discovered this forum, and hadn`t even heard about the "generation"-change in 1995, until a few months ago. But the fact that so many just swallowed that like they swallow everything else, makes me believe that the WT-belief will just go on and on ad infinitum. Many of the old people are still in pre-95-mode, and haven`t really discovered that there was a change then. And soon they die off. And the young ones are to young to understand that the difference in pre-95-doctrine and post-95-doctrine is really huge (cause it really is: There is really no guarantee anymore that Armageddon is just a couple of years away, at most, as it was constantly before -95 - now there are only "the signs" - and the signs could go on for centuries). So I think the celebrated WatchTower-god is going to keep going strong for decades still. They swallow it all down, poor souls.
• 

  Jeffro

  onacruse:

  The proof is in the pudding.

  This is way off topic, but no, the proof is not "in the pudding". This is a common error in lieu of the expression "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  It is you that looks foolish because the chapter from its first verse to verse 11 is clearly applied and directed to Judah with a mention of the nations. The oracle then is addressed to thoise nations in greater detail from verse 12. Modern commentators divide this chapter as such:

  Judgement on Judah 25:1-11

  Judhement on Babylon 25: 12-14

  Judgement on the Nations 25:15-29

  Oracles agaiinst the Nations 25:30-38

  So there!

  scholar JW
• 

  What_is_ur_point

  WATCHTOWER 2001 CD ROM EDITION.......

  In this Chapter 4 of "Your Will Be Done on Earth" there have flashed before us "Foregleams of God’s Kingdom" as reflected by the kingdoms of King-Priest Melchizedek of the ancient city of Salem and of Kings David and Solomon on "Jehovah’s throne" at the same city, but enlarged and called Jerusalem. This holy city and its temple to Jehovah were destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon in 607 B.C. How long was Jehovah’s kingdom over earth to continue inoperative, as represented by his overturned typical kingdom at Jerusalem? By the dream concerning a great tree sent to King Nebuchadnezzar and later interpreted by Jehovah’s prophet Daniel, as recorded in the book of Daniel, chapter 4, Jehovah’s kingdom was to continue inactive toward the earth for a period of "seven times" of Gentile supremacy and dominance over the earth. These "seven times," of 2,520 years’ duration, began at the desolation of Jerusalem and its territory of Judah in 607 B.C. and ended in the historically marked year of 1914 (A.D.). According to the dream of the big tree, as interpreted to Nebuchadnezzar by Daniel, something of universal importance was then due to occur. What?

  19

  The year of the start of the "error" of the house of Israel having been found, namely, 997 B.C.E., then if we measure three hundred and ninety years from then we arrive at the date for the destruction of Jerusalem. It is the year 607 B.C.E. Whether the prophet Ezekiel figured out that date on his receiving the prophecy six years before Jerusalem suffered destruction, we do not know. But the exactness of the matter proves that Jehovah indeed is a Numberer of Years and that he had fixed in advance the year in which he was to execute his judicial decision to the full upon unfaithful Jerusalem. This is something for the modern-day counterpart of unfaithful Jerusalem, namely, Christendom, to take seriously to heart at this late date. Does she realize from examining the Bible that her days are numbered?
• 

  Jeffro

  It is you that looks foolish because the chapter from its first verse to verse 11 is clearly applied and directed to Judah with a mention of the nations. The oracle then is addressed to thoise nations in greater detail from verse 12. Modern commentators divide this chapter as such:
  Judgement on Judah 25:1-11
  Judhement on Babylon 25: 12-14
  Judgement on the Nations 25:15-29
  Oracles agaiinst the Nations 25:30-38
  So there!

  Ooooohhh.. you said "so there!" You must be right... wait a minute.... no, you're just demonstrating your lack of understanding again. Verses 1 and 2 are addressed to only the reader. Verses 3 to 11 are indeed addressed to Judah. Verses 3 to 7 are about how Judah has behaved. Verses 8 to 11 contain information that Jeremiah addressed to Judah about what would happen to the entire region, including but not limited to Judah. Verses 12 to 14 are also addressed to Judah about what will happen to Babylon. Verses 15 to 26 are about the nations, related by Jeremiah, and address only the reader. Verses 27 to 29 address the nations about what will happen to them. Verses 30 and 38 are about what will happen to the nations.

  I invite posters to indicate who looks foolish.
• 

  Hellrider

  The year of the start of the "error" of the house of Israel having been found, namely, 997 B.C.E., then if we measure three hundred and ninety years from then we arrive at the date for the destruction of Jerusalem

  LoL, what`s that? I didn`t know that one. 390 years, is that another "magic number"? Where in the Bible is that number mentioned? One "time" is 360 days (years, according to JW-doctrine), not 390. Where did the 390 - thing come from?

  Scholar:

  Jeremiah 25:9 So I, the Lord , affirm that I am going to send for all the peoples of the north and my servant,King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants and all the nations that surround it. I will utterly destroy this land, its inhabitants, and all the nations that surround it

  Jeremiah 25:11 This whole area will become a desolate wasteland. These nations

  You just have to open your Bible to see that you are wrong. I highlighted some parts, just for you, hope you can see it clearer now.
• 

  Jeffro

  LoL, what`s that? I didn`t know that one. 390 years, is that another "magic number"? Where in the Bible is that number mentioned? One "time" is 360 days (years, according to JW-doctrine), not 390. Where did the 390 - thing come from?

  Ezekiel 4:5

  However, the real question is "where does this magical year of 997 come from"? It is derived by the Watchtower Society using their own chronology working backwards from 607. So of course it works for counting forwards to 607. It is typical Society circular reasoning.
• 

  Jeffro

  eyeslice:

  This thread has rambled off topic.
  
  The point is that WTBTS has ran out of ideas. The 607 thing is not being pushed. They make vague statements like 'Bible Chronology proves'.

  I disagree. The flow of this thread well illustrates the reason why the Society has not dared to approach the 607 issue in any depth for some time. Scholar's continued irrational reasoning evidences the fact that the Society would prefer to let "sleeping dogs lie" then to try to prove the unprovable.

  I remember several comments from the platform at Meetings™, usually from Circuit Overseers™ and District Overseers™ that 'we shouldn't worry too much if we can't explain 607 or 1914'. The reason for that is that if the information is studied in any depth outside of Watchtower® literature, it becomes evident that 607 is empty dogma.
• 

  Hellrider

  Ezekiel 4:5

  However, the real question is "where does this magical year of 997 come from"? It is derived by the Watchtower Society using their own chronology working backwards from 607. So of course it works for counting forwards to 607. It is typical Society circular reasoning.

  Ha ha, yes. Hm, I wonder what the jewish organisations think of this? According to "Chronology of Time according to Scripture" on "The Shepherds page" (posted by me previously in this thread, on page 8, I think), nothing significant happened in 997:

  2978	2762	999 BC		4	480 years from resting from the wars under Joshua to this day, I Kings 6:1 , Creation year 2558, 5th year of Joshua, the year they rested from the wars, Joshua 14:10 . Solomon starts to build the temple of God in the 2nd month which is Iyyar (or Ziv or Zif), I Kings 6:37-38 .
  2979	2763	998 BC		5
  2980	2764	997 BC		6
  2981	2765	996 BC		7
  2982	2766	995 BC		8
  2983	2767	994 BC		9
  2984	2768	993 BC		10
  2985	2769	992 BC		11	The temple is completed, I Kings 6:38 in the month Bul, which is Heshvan, the 8th month.
  2986	2770	991 BC		12	Solomon calls all the elders of Israel, etc., and they meet on the 9th of Tishri and celebrate the great Day of Atonement on the 10th, then Solomon dedicates the house of God on the Feast of Tabernacles, on the 15th of Tishri, the 7th month, I Kings 8:1-2 . Also see I Kings 8:65-66 , II Chronicles 7:9-10 The first seven days were occupied with the dedication (9th - 15th), and the other seven devoted to the Feast of Tabernacles on the 15th, (15th-22nd) and were told they could go on the 23rd.
  2987	2771	990 BC		13
  2988	2772	989 BC		14
  2989	2773	988 BC		15
  2990	2774	987 BC		16
  2991	2775	986 BC		17
  2992	2776	985 BC		18
  2993	2777	984 BC		19
  2994	2778	983 BC		20
  2995	2779	982 BC		21
  2996	2780	981 BC		22
  2997	2781	980 BC		23
  2998	2782	979 BC		24
  2999	2783	978 BC		25

  3000	2784	977 BC		26
  3001	2785	976 BC		27	End of day three, beginning of day four, II Peter 3:8 .
  3002	2786	975 BC		28
  3003	2787	974 BC		29
  3004	2788	973 BC		30
  3005	2789	972 BC		31
  3006	2790	971 BC		32
  3007	2791	970 BC		33
  3008	2792	969 BC		34
  3009	2793	968 BC		35
  3010	2794	967 BC		36
  3011	2795	966 BC		37
  3012	2796	965 BC		38
  3013	2797	964 BC		39

  ...976 bc is marked as "end of day three, beginning of day four", I`m not sure what this means, though. But nothing significant happened in 997 bc, according to this page.
• 

  Jeffro

  Hellrider,

  976 bc is marked as "end of day three, beginning of day four", I`m not sure what this means, though.

  The 'days' referred to here are a reference to 2 Peter 3:8, which indicates that a thousand years is like a day to God. The year correlates to the beginning of the 4th millenium (3001 in first column on that row) from man's creation according to Jewish tradition.

  But nothing significant happened in 997 bc, according to this page.

  No it didn't, but 'scholar' prefers circular reasoning. He can point to all of the dates in the Insight book (that are derived from their 607 dogma) that all 'prove' that 607 has to be the right year. LOL