Posts by CruithneLaLuna

10

I just realized something...

by LuckyNun in

if i'd just pretended to have an anxiety disorder and had a few panic attacks while out in service, i could have been spared the horrors of theocratic ministry school and going out in service.

i would've missed out on a lot of field-service trips to edward's apple orchard, but i could have stayed at home and put off getting baptized until i had enough money saved from my paper routes to make a proper break for it!

why didn't i think of this ten years ago?

CruithneLaLuna

Genuine moods disorders arise as a result of being a sincere JW.

16

On to the next stage of being shunned

by CruithneLaLuna in

if anyone can be said to have "asked for it" by their behavior, i suppose it would be me.

not only did i turn my back on the organization and walk away, but i got involved with "false religion," and wrose yet with neo-paganism and the occult.

(oooh, creepy!

CruithneLaLuna

I can't reply to all of your responses in the manner that they deserve. I do appreciate the many kind expressions.

I thought of sending postcards ot my children. Everything is out in the open, no potential surprises inside an envelope, and they're not worth returning to sender. At worst, they will just be discarded.

For Ian and others who have lost contact with children and others close to us: People make their choices, usually with good intentions. I do not hold my children's behavior against them. I hope they will have a change of mind and heart eventually.

Yes, my family know my thoughts and feelings on spiritual matters, and my activities. Perhaps I was foolish to be so open with them, but again I was setting an example; if you cannot be open with your family, then who can you be open with? - JW families being a violation of norms and "the rules," in that respect.

I do not shun JWs. The ones I knew personally no longer have anything to do with me. Those whom I meet in the course of my activities I treat kindly, and only on one occasion have I found it appropriate to share information about my past with a newly-met JW. I was seeking her assistance in a professional capacity, at the time. She was unable to do anything for me, but to her credit, she tried, and even talked with an elder on my behalf. I think he advised her to disengage from me, which was okay.

I expect that refusing my letter was a family decision. I know not whether the kids were the instigators.

As far as my political beliefs are concerned, as with everything else I will go where my processing of the available information leads me. I had strong opinions even when I was a JW, just didn't see any point in trying to do anything about them.

Bisous, no worries about sharing the first thoughts that came to your mind. I didn't see your initial reply as "selfish."

If I failed to reply directly to your words, it doesn't imply a devaluation of them. All that was said was important.

Warm regards,

George

16

On to the next stage of being shunned

by CruithneLaLuna in

if anyone can be said to have "asked for it" by their behavior, i suppose it would be me.

not only did i turn my back on the organization and walk away, but i got involved with "false religion," and wrose yet with neo-paganism and the occult.

(oooh, creepy!

CruithneLaLuna

If anyone can be said to have "asked for it" by their behavior, I suppose it would be me. Not only did I turn my back on the organization and walk away, but I got involved with "false religion," and wrose yet with Neo-Paganism and the occult. (Oooh, creepy! demons....) And although I'm still developing a political stance and will accept no particular label in that regard, my input, processing, and output in that area seem to lean rather far to the left, and toward activism rather than the passive stance that is the only one that JWs can approve. (Again, falling in league with the devil.) So, it should not surprise me that my efforts to maintain a minimal level of contact with my children (now 18 and 14) should finally be pointedly rejected. My most recent letter to them came back, labeled "Return to Sender" - reason given: "Refused."

At least I am setting an example (a very bad one, obviously) of doing what one believes is right and accepting the consequences therefor. I am doing this as fully and zealously now as I did when I was a JW. I know no other way to behave. I hate hypocrisy, and don't understand those who can behave hypocritically, or out of harmony with their beliefs. That is a form of internal dissonance for which I have almost no tolerance.

You wonder what my feelings are about my kids cutting me off and being so pointed about it. (This is, in effect, saying, "Please don't send us any more mail. We DO NOT want to hear from you, at all.") I am not angry. I am not even hurt, really. I understand that this is a natural consequence of where they are spiritually / mentally / emotionally, and the places to which my development has led me. I have understood and have been prepared ot accept the consequences of my actions. That includes having taught my kids, when I was a JW, that if I ever "turned against Jehovah," their obligation to Jehovah would be to love him more, and to follow the Bible's direction in their treatment of me. They are doing a great job of following the teachings of the Bible (as explained by the WTS) and of the their parents and step-father.

I am not posting this to garner sympathy, just as "news" of interest to ex-JWs.

Warm regards,

George

64

Infidelity amongst JWs

by YellowLab in

does there seem to be a higher incidence of infidelity amongst the jws?.

my brother, who is an active jw and ministerial servant, has an elder friend who was recently disfellowshipped for having an affair with another sister in the hall.

it turns out this sister was divorced a few years earlier from a "worldly" man who had an affair on her.

CruithneLaLuna

I said something in my previous reply about wishing for someone to better articulate my perceptions about he way JWism actually works. I didn't find it in the words of a psychologist, but in an article in a Pagan magazine. "Gothic Paganism argues that you cannot banish the shadow side of your soul, and if you [try to], then you deny part of your power and invite it to wreak havoc by breaking loose at inopportune moments. The premise goes, if you want to achieve real growth, you must acknowledge what holds you back before you can overcome it." I am not a Gothic Pagan, but this argument resonates strongly with me, along with the further (Jungian) idea that embracing and integrating the "evil" or dark side of one's personality is ultimately beneficial. It's those who cannot integrate such things successfully that end up hurting themselves and others. (Gee, that's all of us, to some degree, isn't it?) I don't see it so much as an issue of "overcoming" part of one's nature as of directing that energy into healthy channels. JWism doesn't allow one to do that (without tremendous and painful guilt).

George

8

Esoteric Wisdom,Does it Exist?

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

the dictionary states:esoteric,intended for or understood by only a chosen few,as an inner group of disciples or initiates( said of ideas,literature,etc.

)beyond the understanding or knowledge of most people;abstruse,hard to understand.. a large percentage of the jehovah's witnesses believe that a certain,"aura of esoteric wisdom"is existent during the governing body sessions.they believe that an unusually high level,manifesting more than ordinary scriptual knowledge and spiritual wisdom give its pronouncements an importance above and beyond that of normally accorded words of imperfect men.. the fact that the average witness has only a misty idea of the way that the leadership arrives at its conclusions adds to the "aura of esoteric wisdom".. for those of us who have come to realize that esoteric wisdom does not exist with the governing body of the witnesses,my question to you is,does it exist at all,if so,who has it?.

blueblades,and the search continues.

CruithneLaLuna

It has become profitable to widely publish wisdom that was formerly "esoteric," in books and via the Internet. There is hardly a subject extant that you can't find more information about than you ever dreamed existed. There are a few religions that do reserve "advanced teachings" and other information for intitiates, and that is a privilege that is usually considered to be appropriately reserved for religious orders.

It is interesting to me that much that was considered "esoteric wisdom" of a spiritual nature is being rediscovered and repackaged in updated a scientifically validated format. See, for example, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060931175

Warm regards,

George the Cruithne

116

My brother died last night

by doodle-v in

jw
friends

my brother turned 21 on september 24th, a month later the doctor told him that his leukimia had returned and he had a 10% chance of surviving.

ten days before he died he spent four days at my house.

he had already made up his mind that he wasnt going to take blood.

CruithneLaLuna

I think this is the first time either of us has replied to the other's post(s). I just want to say that I'm sorry for the loss of your brother's earthly life, and the pain of his family and friends. Death is a part of life, and I believe that the task of those who remain behind when a loved one leaves the earthly scene is to just keep on doing our best, pursuing happiness and a positive, contributing role in society. That's undoubtedly what the deceased would want us to do, and/or the best thing we can do "for them" and all concerned.

Warm regards,

Cruithne

3

Hello again

by CruithneLaLuna in

jw
friends

i've been "away" for two or three weeks.

life has been busy and interesting.

i realized that i hadn't posted here in a while, so "i'm back," responding to a couple of people's topics.

CruithneLaLuna

I've been "away" for two or three weeks. Life has been busy and interesting. I realized that I hadn't posted here in a while, so "I'm back," responding to a couple of people's topics. I realize this is "no big deal," but I felt that I should say hello again. (It has been hinted to me that, in some sense, I've been missed.)

Warm regards,

Cruithne (George)

BTW You may call me Cruithne, you may call me Cru, or maybe the name my parents gave me (George) is easier.

39

new to the forum

by kgrrl in

hello...just wanted to say hello and introduce myself.

my name is kelli.

i was raised as a jehovah witness by my mother.

CruithneLaLuna

Dear Kelli,

It is good that you are finding healing. It is very sad but true that the JWs cannot and do not offer any real healing; in fact, people are just supposed to change their behavior, whatever it takes, and behavior is judged on its moral value, or against an absolutist moral scale, regardless of what's behind it. I personally believe that people need to be healed rather than punished. If a person is potentially a bad influence on others or may cause harm to others, that must be dealt with, but why is "punishment" the best way to do that? It might be more useful to think first in terms of society's debt to miscreants (what did "we" do to elicit your bad behavior, and how can we heal you and ourselves so that you can lead a productive, happy life contributing to your own and the common welfare?) rather than in terms of the miscreant's "debt to society."

Warm regards,

Cruithne

23

Should I have said something?

by Beans in

growing up i was discriminated for being german and italian not only that my ears grew before i did and was also called dumbo.

so combine that with square head, nazi and wop and being made fun of for being a jw getting in fights as a kid was very frequent.. so now you can pretty much call me anything you want and i really just don't care, got used to it and it just rolls off me.

so last week i am at a small birthday party and this guy was making some coments about germans and calling his boss "a crusty old kraut" among other things.

CruithneLaLuna

I would bring it up with the person in private, IF you have a reasonable rapport with that person. If you recontextualize the "crusty old kraut" comment, the person will probably see the error of his/her ways, and apologize. I wouldn't make too big a deal of it either. Smile and laugh when you discuss it - keep the discussion relatively light, but remind the person gently that it ain't right to hold a person's ethnicity against him. If you want to be really subtle, you might even find a way to bring up your German ancestry in an offhand way, and not even mention the person's previous comment.

Regards,

Cruithne

64

Infidelity amongst JWs

by YellowLab in

does there seem to be a higher incidence of infidelity amongst the jws?.

my brother, who is an active jw and ministerial servant, has an elder friend who was recently disfellowshipped for having an affair with another sister in the hall.

it turns out this sister was divorced a few years earlier from a "worldly" man who had an affair on her.

CruithneLaLuna

This topic touches on an area about which I would have a lot to say, if I could figure out how to articulate it. I will try.

People will be people. We all have "good" and "bad" inclinations. For example, most married men will on the one hand have an inclination to be faithful to their wives, but on the other hand be occasionally tempted, to varying degrees, to be unfaithful. (Same for married women relative to their husbands.) This is a basic human experience, common to people of all belief systems, religious or otherwise. Whether or not infidelity occurs depends on how one deals with the temptation.

My opinion based on observation and experience is this: JWism posits a range of acceptable thought / speech / behavior, as opposed to "sinful" thought / speech / behavior, that is very narrow and in general quite unrealistic. The religion is strongly dualistic, and as we know the penalties for sin imposed by the org, both in concrete physical terms (shunning) and spiritually (loss of one's relationship with Jehovah and the hope of everlasting life), are so severe that it seems to me that JWism puts people in a context that the normal human mind and emotions have a very difficult time adjusting to.

In fact, it may be impossible to be fully human, and be a JW, at the same time. I can't speak for others, but I think this was definitely true for me. Since I left the org, my mission basically has been to find out what it means to be fully human, and be as fully human as possible from moment to moment. While that doesn't mean being a hedonist and/or being "bad for the fun of it," it does mean frankly and fearlessly embracing and integrating my "shadow side," not hating myself for it or thinking I'm a bad and unworthy person because of it.

A psychologist could express and elaborate on this better than I, but I believe that the psychologically unhealthy environment of "the Truth" tends to effectively create and promote many of the moral "aberrations" that it officially and overtly deplores. In other words, if you take some moral offenders (including unfaithful husbands / wives) out of the context of the organization and its belief system, and give those people a chance for some real personal growth, they may choose, and be better able, to avoid repeating their misconduct given a less "insane," unnatural, and stressful life context outside of the organization.

My view on this is largely speculative. I would LOVE to see a substantive analysis of these kinds of things, based on thorough research. (I'm not doing a Web search right now, so if someone else does so and finds this kind of materail, fine - please post the links.)

Cruithne