Thanks for that lovely, well-stated post. I love it when other people articulate reasons why I self-identify as Pagan. As far as authors and books go, I have found Starhawk's writings to be very helpful in that regard.
George
CruithneLaLuna
JoinedPosts by CruithneLaLuna
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16
What is the difference between Christianity and Paganism?
by CruithneLaLuna inrecently i had the opportunity to read the first three or four chapters of a very interesting book: the jesus mysteries : was the "original jesus" a pagan god?
i regret that circumstances prevented me from completing my reading.
i may choose to purchase a copy of this book for my personal library, and so that i can finish reading it.
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What is the difference between Christianity and Paganism?
by CruithneLaLuna inrecently i had the opportunity to read the first three or four chapters of a very interesting book: the jesus mysteries : was the "original jesus" a pagan god?
i regret that circumstances prevented me from completing my reading.
i may choose to purchase a copy of this book for my personal library, and so that i can finish reading it.
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CruithneLaLuna
Could you please post the information sources that you're evidently drawing from? Or at least offer a "serach path" that will turn up such information?
Thanks,
George
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What a blessing to leave the Cult
by ElderSmurf inthis is our first christmas as a family after leaving the cult that defiles gods name.
its been a good year, not only have we left the cult but so have most of our family.
its wonderful to finally be free of the hateful/doublefaced society and to finally see how others worship the almighty god.
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CruithneLaLuna
Yes, all things considered, it is a blessing to leave. Some of us, including me, have been through a lot of trauma in connection with leaving - although my personal trauma was more connected with being in than with leaving - leaving was the first step toward healing the wounds and defects that led to the trauma. If it has been relatively easier for you (though I suspect it is never easy in an absolute sense), then consider that a blessing also.
Warm regards, happy holidays,
George
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Things Other People Accomplished
by NEWWORLDSLACKER inthings other people accomplished.
when they were your age ...... this really pissed me off.
i dont think i have ever fliped off my computer so much before.
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CruithneLaLuna
At age 49:
Jim Bakker, former PTL minister, was convicted of fraudulently raising $158 million in contributions.
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Are "young people the Jehovah's' growth market:"?
by blondie inhttp://www.themercury.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,8215848,00.html
getting a foot in door
by heather low choy .
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CruithneLaLuna
A study by the City University of New York indicates that in eleven years, the number of people in the USA identifying themselves as Neo-Pagans increased seventeen-fold (nearly 1700%). That's two or three orders of magnitude greater than the JWs' growth in the USA during that period - and it is especially interesting in that (in general) Pagans do not proselytize. (If you are of Germanic descent, Asatru would be an exception for you.)
It is very far from true that "all" new Pagans are young - I and some of my friends, among them ex-JWs, who have been drawn to Paganism over the past several years, are middle-aged - but the majority of them are relatively young. It seems quite common for teenagers to be attracted to Wicca and other Pagan paths.
I think the youth of this culture are a "growth market" for all brands of spirituality. (Ask your Mormon acquaintances from which age group they are drawing the greaterst number of new converts.) The Dubs' share is relatively small, in the grand scheme of things.
Cruithne
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Have you ever been dobbed in, and for what??????????
by BLISSISIGNORANCE intoday was a good day.
saturday, no witnessing, no meeting prep, no skirt and no dubs, no rush to do anything in particular, went to the mall to get some things, bumped into my brother (non dub) and his partner and my 3yo neice, had coffee with them and hubby, chatted, came home, kelpie dropped by to visit, went grocery shopping with my neighbour, ......................just to mention a few things.
doing what i wanted to do!.
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CruithneLaLuna
My elder friends (and I considered most of the elders my friends) said that I was good at telling on myself. I was counseled on several occasions for things like my hairstyle, spreading gossip and rumor (ouch - they were right about that one, and I learned a lesson, I think and definitely hope). Theone area in which I had what might be called persistent problems was music. I always viewed it (the music I was attracted to, anyway, not necessarily YOUR music [LOL]) as "art," and therefore somehow - except in obviously extreme cases - above petty moralizing.
The wife of a prominent elder and I had a discussion about music, in which she expressed her taste for "beautiful classical music," including religiously-oriented pieces; I recall Handel's Messiah being explicitly mentioned. She said that one might "forget about" the "false religious" connections in order to enjoy such pieces. However, a lot of folks had difficulty forgetting about the various interesting connections that the music I enjoyed had. I liked "world music" long before it became popular. In general, the music to which I was attracted was almost all on the Society's and my fellow Dubs' shit list. A few examples:
Classical music: Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring; Moussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain (pieces inspired by Paganism and witchcraft)
Indian classical music (Ravi Shankar and the like) - philosophical rooted in, and inseparable from, Hinduism
Harry Partch - an iconoclastic American composer, whose pieces were based on myths, ancient Greek drama, and generally very Pagan themes. Also, his music sounds, literally, like it came from another planet or dimension; I can understand "the average person" finding it very off-putting. One brother for whom I played it closed his eyes and screwed up his face. I stopped the music and asked what he was doing. He said, "Praying."
The Mahavishnu Orchestra, a jazz/rock/Indian fusion band of the 70s, that centered around the technical pyrotechnics of the lead guitarist, who broke new ground musically, was elected "guitarist of the year" by Guitar Player magazine's readers two or three years in a row, and foreshadowed current players like Eric Johnson, Joe Satriani, and Steve Vai.
The Mahavishnu Orchestra and Harry Partch were characterized by one dub, who expressed his opinions behind my back, as "demonistic, Hinduistic and Buddhistic."
I wonder what the "brothers" would have to say about my current interest in Arabic (Muslim) and Sufi music.
I have never had much tolerance for abusive lyrics, which have become more prevalent, esp. (to my perception) in rap and related genres.
That's my story.
Cruithne, he of eclectic / artistic tastes
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Did you re-evaluate who Jesus Christ is when you left?
by hooberus inmany on here left the watchtower for various reasons.
did any of you re-evaluate his deity after you left?
do you think that the watchtower has been accurate in the way they present what other's believe about jesus christ and his relationship to the father?
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CruithneLaLuna
Was Jesus a historical person? We were certainly conditioned to think so by the bOrg, and most Christians definitely think he was. It is a long-standing tradition in the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Chistianity, Islam) to think that "our Scriptures give us historical accounts of the truth." (Some also believe that the Vedas are literal accounts of true history. I'm interested in reading a scholarly book or two on that subject.) Yet, some possibly cogent challenges to such assumptions have been raised.
Recently, I had the opportunity to read the first 3 or 4 chapters of the book The Jesus Mysteries : Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God? The authors do a good job (an amazingly good job, for some no doubt a disturbingly good job) of correlating the events of Jesus' life, and his teachings, as reported in the Bible, with the myths and mysteries of Paganism that were vital, well-known, and compelling for many people in the Middle East in Biblical times. The point is well made, and well documented, that educated Pagans of the early Christian period were incensed because they saw Christianity as offering absolutely nothing new, except the conviction that their peculiar repackaging of well-known myths and doctrines was literal, historical truth; the belief that those who persisted in their adherence to other religions or spiritual paths would unquestionably be eternally destroyed by their God; and a fanatical and warped desire to die as martyrs. (It was quite amazing to me, in reading The Gnostic Gospels a few months ago, to learn - by reading their own words - how ardently many early Christians desired to be tortured and killed for Christ.)
The authors make it clear that they did not begin their research with a bias toward their final conclusion, or even a glimmering of it, but they claim that their research ultimately led them to conclude that when one subtracts out everything about Christianity that was "obviously" plagiarized from Paganism and grafted onto Jewish roots, one is left with ... nothing. I.e. no historical Jesus, and nothing (of a positive nature) in Christianity that was religiously innovative.
I want to read the rest of the book, and re-read the early part more critically.
I have over time come across other material of similar nature: Achraya S's The Christ Conspiracy : The Greatest Story Ever Sold, [separate link:] The Bible Fraud, and jesuspuzzle.com. While I do not sense within myself a need or desire to "prove Christianity false," I am ready to entertain such information and arguments open-mindedly.
George
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The joy of getting angry
by Elsewhere init took a few years of being out of the borg, but i eventually realized that i was stuck in a "people pleaser" mode.
i was terrified of displeasing people and experiencing their resulting wrath.
because of this i would always suppress my own anger or displeasure toward things that happened.. it's odd, but i did not know that i had the right to get angry... other people had the right, but i did not.
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CruithneLaLuna
My experience as a JW was that the religion multiplied my reasons to feel angry (in reaction to hurts and frustrations, which also seemed to be multipled), but made me feel extremely guilty about expressing my anger - which added to my hurt and frustration. I was caught in a vicious cycle of emotoinal pain / frustratoin / anger. Nowadays, I seldom get beyond the "mildly peeved" stage, and if I use a few colorful adjectives, it is usually no big deal, although I do try to avoid offending people (unless doing so just comes with the territory of taking care of necessary business).
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Throwing out Old Watchtowers
by Okram inwhen you were a jw,.
did u feel guilty about throwing out old copies of the watchtower even if you had the yearly bound volumes?
my mom won't do it.
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CruithneLaLuna
I moved in August, 2001. Before leaving the area, I sent a DA letter to the body of elders. I had intended to leave the big box containing my literature on the back porch of the KH, but since that was inconvenient, I just chucked it into the nearest dumpster. I had left the organization with no intention to return a year and a half previously, and I felt not the slightest twinge of guilt about discarding the literature. Cruithne
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How the Society have failed our youth
by truthseeker inwhen you think of how much talent and creativity young people have, isn't it a shame that the watchtower bible & tract society has done absolutely nothing for the development of young people?.
they can print a'young people ask' article on the use of cellphones, they can produce a video on how to make friends, and they can release a glossy tract about what will youths do with their life, yet they do nothing to promote 'youth' in the organisation.. generation after generation of young people are subjected to 5 boring meetings a week, an endless supply of doors to knock on and an endless amount of literature to read, study and mediatate on.. i'm not sugessting for one moment that all jw youths/young adults are miserable and bored in the organization.
some seem to have gone through life with ready made friends in their congregation, no bullying at school, steady jobs and some sort of 'career' in the organization, whether it be pioneering or bethel service.. but there is a saying that ignorance is bliss and this is true of the religion a lot of us were raised in.. how may churches do you know have services for young people?
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CruithneLaLuna
Good idea: An all-volunteer organization, that has high ideals and tries to motivate people young and old to full-time service to its cause.
Bad idea: Making people feel guilty if they aren't motivated to serve full-time, and discouraging them from doing much if anything else with their lives.
Want to have a family, including children? Expect that idea to be criticized. Want to get an "advanced" education, and enjoy its fruits (an interesting and decently-paying career)? Expect to be made to feel guilty about that. Want to cultivate your talents and NOT use them in ways that are easily identified as "service to God" according to organizational standards? That's "untheocratic."
I am currently involved with a (non-religious) organization that fits the first description. I have watched for any indications that they fit the second as well, and have seen none, thus far. If I ever do see such indication, I hope I will bolt for the door and kiss them goodbye, because I spent too much time and passed up too many opportunities for a personally meaningful life in the bOrg. "Good idea" equals loving and giving, and offering opportunities for people to express that side of themselves without limit. "Bad idea" equals a form of totalitarianism, sucking people dry and leaving them with nothing for themselves. I have no problem with the first, major problems with the second.
"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward." - Mark 9:38-41
The Society loves to quote and apply the complementary verses that say, "Whoever is not with me is against me," and "Whoever does not gather with me scatters." However, it serves their purposes to almost completely ignore the above-quoted passage in Mark, which is part of the same "inspired Word of God."
Cruithne