Posts by outbutnotdown

122

Do you fear death?

by onacruse in

jw
friends

.

the ultimate test of our existence: termination.. i don't fear death...no reservations, no nightmares.. craig

outbutnotdown

What an interesting conversation between markfromcali and LittleToe.

LT,

You seem to be quick to take comments and classify them into certain specific areas. Had you not mentioned that Mark's comment was Calvinistic, I would have just thought that it just made good sense. (By the way, I still think that it made good sense... )

There are a lot of sayings in this language that are so profound that they become cliches. It is not the fault of the authors that they then become ridiculed as being cliches. It is the people who have made them so.

Mark,

Great comments, bud. I understand what you mean.

Brad

122

Do you fear death?

by onacruse in

jw
friends

.

the ultimate test of our existence: termination.. i don't fear death...no reservations, no nightmares.. craig

outbutnotdown

Great question!!!!!!

For me, the interesting thing is that I used to FEAR LIFE. And when I was in fear of the life I was in how could I not fear death. Now that I love life..... (and, yes, I do still have everyday stresses, just like everybody else... )...... fearing death has disappeared as well.

Like others, I don't want to rush it, but, hey, when you're happy being alive, what comes after is of little concern. Thanks again for the question.

Brad

14

Should I renounce my baptism to the JW organization?

by outbutnotdown in

jw
friends

i got baptized in 1986, when i was 17. i got df'd in 1992, when i was 22.

(april birthday.. df'd early in 1992.... .

i don't want to sound like i am complaining about this next part because i actually have a very happy life right now with very few exceptions/concerns.

outbutnotdown

I got baptized in 1986, when I was 17. I got df'd in 1992, when I was 22. (April birthday.. df'd early in 1992.... )

I don't want to sound like I am complaining about this next part because I actually have a very happy life right now with very few exceptions/concerns. But, this one major decision has been nagging me for awhile and I would like some advice from anybody here, and some of you may have gone through the exact same thing.

Here goes: My life as a child was pretty stressful. I have three older siblings all of whom were regular pioneering by the time I was 16. I always felt pressure, FEAR and GUILT of not being as "good" as them. (I am sure others here can relate to how their parents, whatever their intentions, used GUILT and FEAR on their kids to try to get them to conform.) Also, my father was emotionally unstable and had, by the time I was 17, tried to commit suicide about 10-12 times. (I now know that he was actually just pretending to, but at that age I honestly thought he had cheated death all those times..... ) And, by the way, believe it or not he was in good standing at the Kingdom Hall despite the elders being aware of all this. (sarcasm intended)

So, I went through the questions with the elders and was approved for baptism, even though I, (trying to sift through the emotions that were going on in my head back then to find the most predominate ones), I was doing things that weren't "approved of" and that basically I KNEW that I was getting baptized because of pressure from family and not because of respect for God or anything. It was basically all guilt driven and not love driven. (I see things a lot better now, by the way...)

My family are EXTREME Jw's. Scary, I know, but they have all completely shunned me, and spend no time with my four beautiful children. Oh well, that's their loss..... my children have many POSITIVE influences on them, so that's OK.

What I have been thinking of doing is writing a letter to the WTBTS and say that because of mental duress, I was not in a position to "dedicate my life" to anything/anyone at the time that I did, and that would in effect renounce my ever being associated with them. To be honest, I have already done this mentally anyway, so I guess the deeper reason for me doing so is to try to have my family accept me. In your responses, I would like to make it clear again that I am in a much happier place now than I ever was in that "faith", but the family bond thing must be strong in me, and my renunciation is just that....... a statement that I NEVER WAS a JW. As screwy as it may sound, my family would actually think that that is better than where they picture me now.

Tell me honestly, am I putting too much stock in blood ties, and instead should I just continue on in the positive path I am on, or should I attempt what I am contempalting? Anybody do the same thing or think about it?

Thanks, in advance, for sharing your thoughts with me.

Brad

15

Before you get baptised do you have to declare how much....

by farmer in

jw
friends

money you are going to donate to jw?????

?

outbutnotdown

Farmer,

Getting off the money topic just a bit...... sorry...... but you posed other issues that I thought it would do well for me to share my experiences with you.

As far as your relative not having to join, that is in fact true, that he will not HAVE to join, but like Little Toe said, the whole association with them will cause problems in his life for years. Here's a part of my experience with them:

My (now) ex-wife and I got disfellowshipped (kicked out of) from that religion for having sex together before we got married. She got re-instated (accepted into their fold again), and I didn't. There was another JW who was interested in my wife, (YES, she was still very much my wife at the time) and was asking her out on dates over and over. The elders, (heads of the church), knew all about it and did NOTHING about it. The guy was never even spoken to by them.

My point is this: These people with supposedly high morals are only ethical to the ones that they choose to be nice to. If you have ANY opportunity to get your relative out of that relationship or better yet, get the girlfriend out of the religion, do so.

They pass themselves off as being ethical people but it is only so if you are "GOOD" in their eyes. Don't let your relative be put in that situation, if at all possible.

Brad

38

What Is The Root Of All Evil

by Elmer J. Fudd in

jw
friends

money?,,,,,,, no, religion!

all the wars that i have studied have been attributed to religious beliefs who's foundation whereby being unfounded and un-provable.

trust in gawd, allah, jesus, jehovah, mohammed and on and on is what the lost say, or "the lord will provide" for that matter.

outbutnotdown

Six of nine comes through with some good points yet again. He and a previous poster said FEAR is the root of all evil. I would have to agree. From FEAR comes insecurity, which leads to close-mindedness, which leads to judging, which leads to condemnation, which leads to many other evils.

Thanks for the question!!!!!

Brad, (of the "I'm going to hug my kids and help them feel SAFE as much as I can" class.)

75

Do I really upset people on here?

by ScoobySnax in

jw
friends

.

i don't think i say anything more forthright than the next on here........ its just that i believe differently.. if i do upset people then i'll go.. if i don't then i'll stay.. scoob

outbutnotdown

Hey Scoob,

I have had differences of opinion with you but you don't "really" upset me, personally.

I read this interesting quote one time, "I have learned silence from the talkative, tolerance from the intolerant and kindness from the unkind. I should not be ungrateful to these teachers, also."

I think you could learn a bit from what Craig is trying to tell you as well, just as I have learned things from you. My feelings on why you act the way that you act is slightly different from Craig's but similar enough......... I would suggest that you may have "Borderline Personality Disorder", (since you seem to never really want to take responsibility for your actions, no matter how rude and offensive they have been in the past.) The JW religion itself has many traits that can be attributed to the same condition, BPD.

But, IMHO, I think you are here to teach others.......... It is just up to the others here to understand that you have "issues" and that you really don't mean to "UPSET" them.

You wouldn't have created this post if you do mean to upset people, would you? UNLESS, it is a self-serving ploy on your part to try to get support from some here and then to use that support to insult people like Valis.

But that is up to each person here to decide for themselves, right????..... You would do well to accept that people who differ with you in opinion, are entitled to keep their's without you trying to minimize it all the time.

Brad

19

One prayer that works for you.

by Steve Lowry in

jw
friends

admittedly, this thread is for believers.

is there a prayer that when you pray it, you feel that it gets answered faithfully?

for example, maybe when you?re afraid you pray for courage and you?re given it.

outbutnotdown

Steve,

Yes, I most certainly think that we can both be right. My interpretation of a higher power is only what works for me. I may just choose to look at it my way because I haven't gotten over some mental JW blocks, etc.

My main point is simply that this prayer or calling on a higher power thing always happens within our OWN minds and, for me, realizing that helps me to keep it in perspective so that I don't think I'm too "special" but also not insignificant in this world either.

Brad

19

Agony (of indecision)

by onacruse in

jw
friends

once in a while (sometimes in rapid succession), very insightful (or, shall we say: willing to share their hearts) people say something that just immediately cuts right to a totally exposed nerve...no thought needed, you just know right away that it has touched a tender spot in your soul, and you instinctively flinch.. without prior permission, but with editing, i'd like to share part of this personal message:if you can remember how you felt before you went to bethel...about a true brotherhood working together towards a common cause, where one is your leader and all you are brothers...it is a dream i cannot let go of.

another person was kind enough to describe it in the words of nathaniel hawthorne (of herman melville) - "he can neither believe nor be comfortable in his disbelief and is too honest not to try to do one or the other.".

this brought tears to my eyes...oh how true!

outbutnotdown

Interesting topic.

I like jgnat's post and at the risk of sounding arrogant I feel that I fall into the "loving the cause" category. I was both blessed and cursed by the same things in life. All that has happened to me has been a curse and the very same things have been a blessing to me as well.

The only thing that changed was how I PERCEIVED THOSE THINGS TO BE!!!!! In the words of Aaron Lewis of the band Staind, "The only thing I know is that I can change. Everything else just stays the same."

I was lucky enough to have suffered complete shunning from my family, that it taught me how sad their judging really is. By surviving such a judgement I at least know that I never want to be guilty of it myself again.

Here's to everyone else here who has "survived" their unwarranted condemnation.

Brad

22

They just dont get it do they?..

by flower in

i saw my family this past weekend while visiting my home state for a few days.

its almost comical at this point how terrified my own siblings are of me.

like they cant even look me in the eye when they talk ....its so sad.

outbutnotdown

Flower,

It sucks that you are going through that, but believe it or not it could be worse. I think there may be hope for your family since they are actually having something to do with you.

I can't say the same for mine.... (and I feel for them a lot more than it bothers me)... but my brother moved to another house and changed his number and told my mother to not tell me where he lives. All this because in our last conversation, (1 1/2 yrs. ago), I told him that I believe that it is not the truth....... but that I still managed to learn good things from it. Since then every member of my family has refused to answer the phone even.

I would be lying if I said it doesn't hurt, but can you imagine their mindset to do those things to themselves, never mind me?

Anyway, the best thing we can do is stay away and stay happy........ those two seem to go hand in hand.

Brad

5

"As soon as they are saying 'Peace and Security', sudden destruction.......

by outbutnotdown in

jw
friends

i was having a moment today when i was trying to compare how loving the jw's god (and father) is compared to me, also a father.. i'm not sure how much they still preach the "peace and security" cry and that sudden destruction is to be upon the world immediately after that.....????......

but when i was a child i thought that was the meanest and also cowardly thing that god could do.

comparing it to me as a father.... .

outbutnotdown

I was having a moment today when I was trying to compare how loving the JW's God (and Father) is compared to me, also a father.

I'm not sure how much they still preach the "Peace and Security" cry and that sudden destruction is to be upon the world immediately after that.....????...... but when I was a child I thought that was the meanest and also cowardly thing that God could do. Comparing it to me as a father.... .

My two boys are 9 and 6 and I love them to bits but they can really argue when they are in certain moods. What if I told them how I thought they should learn how to get along but they went about it another way than my advice? They devised their own plan to get along, but at least there was "peace" between them. Is that when I should send them to their room or ground them or hit them? Wouldn't I be an arrogant prick and a pretty pathetic father if I told them that they had to do it my way and since they didn't, (even though the end result was EXACTLY what I wanted) that they were now going to be severely punished?

Yet that is basically what the JW's are saying about their Jehovah. Is it possible that they have realized thhe stupidity of that sort of "logic" and have gotten away from that saying? (Honest question, since I haven't been to a meeting in 10 years and have heard very little about that past prediction that they stuck to so strongly for years.

Brad