outbutnotdown

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Posts by outbutnotdown

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  86

  Suicide.... how do you view people who "attempt" it?

  by outbutnotdown in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anybody who has read my other recent posts...... don't worry, this is absolutely not about me feeling that way... i'm very happy, thanks..... .

  my roommate, however, had a friend who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago and she just broke up with her boyfriend and he was saying things similar to what the guy who committed suicide awhile back was saying just before he took his life.

  it is freaking her out.

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  outbutnotdown

  First of all, why did that "thumbs down" thing come up?

  I had a similar experience to kls. My father attempted suicide about 12-15 times when I was between the ages of about 6 to 20. There were a lot of people that reacted very similar to how kls got treated. They would sometimes even outwardly condemn our whole family, as if we were all sick.

  I'm not sure if the fact that the JW's would teach the "no resurrection" thing that made it worse, but it was way beyond just an awkward feeling, although that response was evident as well, quite frequently. At this stage in my life, I realise that my father was basically just pretending, to try to get attention. I wish I had the ability to make that determination back then..... it would have been a lot less heart-wrenching.

  As far as whether I feel more pity towards him or whether the anger prevails more is still up in the air.

  Irregardless, I have great compassion for the family members who go through the after-effects. It is very sad to see.

  Brad
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  86

  Suicide.... how do you view people who "attempt" it?

  by outbutnotdown in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anybody who has read my other recent posts...... don't worry, this is absolutely not about me feeling that way... i'm very happy, thanks..... .

  my roommate, however, had a friend who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago and she just broke up with her boyfriend and he was saying things similar to what the guy who committed suicide awhile back was saying just before he took his life.

  it is freaking her out.

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  outbutnotdown

  Anybody who has read my other recent posts...... don't worry, this is absolutely not about me feeling that way... I'm very happy, thanks.....

  My roommate, however, had a friend who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago and she just broke up with her boyfriend and he was saying things similar to what the guy who committed suicide awhile back was saying just before he took his life. It is freaking her out.

  I won't really give my opinion yet on what I feel about people who commit, or attempt to commit suicide. To be honest, my opinion may be a little jaded. I'll explain the reason for this later, but for now, I just wanted to get other peoples' views of it without me telling my story possibly swaying their opinion.

  Brad
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  12

  Pariah or Prodigal son?

  by caspian in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  who was really right the father or the firstborn son?

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  outbutnotdown

  ozziepost,

  You take that I believe that we do not need a saviour as being negative? It seems as though you may be just saying that because I am not COMPLETELY accepting the Christian viewpoint.

  How can it be construed as being negative the fact that I feel that humans are quite beautiful poeple and when we follow our very deepest of emotions and thoughts..... such as love and empathy and understanding as our starting ground for ALL humans of ALL religions and ALL races, etc........ that we are living up to our potential very well? If you want to judge taht as being negative, that's up to you, but I don't think it's a negative viewpoint.

  LT,

  To answer your question, I believe we can view ourselves as being very near perfection, but with still some progress to be made. For me to suggest, as you seem to want to categorize my thinking as, that we are perfect but just fail miserably is kind of Christian in its thinking and I'm not accepting that as COMPLETELY accurate in describing my viewpoint of life.

  Brad
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  16

  The NEED for Acknowledgement and Validation..what do you think?

  by LyinEyes in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was flipping thru the channels a few minutes ago and the oprah show was on with an interview with tatum o'neal .

  i havent watched all of the show but from what i can get from it so far,,,,,,tatum has a bad relationship with her father , she has written a book about it all.

  she and oprah were talking about what could make her have peace with her father and so on .

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  outbutnotdown

  Lyin' Eyes,

  I think it is absolutely necessary for us to fulfill that need for acknowledgement and validation. Other people have already made good points here, so I'll be brief. I just wanted to let you know, from personal experience, the best you can do is tell your story, as it is..... the truth. Sometimes it may be awhile in coming... sometimes you won't even get the acknowledgment from some you think may need it from, but being true to yourself will eventually bring about the validation you need.

  Brad
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  12

  Pariah or Prodigal son?

  by caspian in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  who was really right the father or the firstborn son?

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  outbutnotdown

  LT,

  Is it not a basic CHRISTIAN philosophy, (not solely attributable to JW's), that without Jesus as our saviour, we are sinners? What if we are neither sinners nor perfect?

  Actually, we've had many lengthy discussions about this in the past, so I'll just give you a simple theory of what I mean. When I send my kids out to play soccer or hockey, etc., I encourage them to do the best that they can, which implies that it comes from a POSITIVE mind-frame. I don't send them out and tell them that IF they screw up, it'll still be OK, that I'll still love them anyway. This instills in them an already NEGATIVE starting ground.

  Yet this is what the basic premise of Christianity is...... all humans are screw-ups..... it's well recognized that children react best to POSITIVE life lessons and yet Christianity does it backwards, to a certain extent.

  Brad
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  12

  Pariah or Prodigal son?

  by caspian in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  who was really right the father or the firstborn son?

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  outbutnotdown

  caspian,

  I was thinking a little further about your question and I was wondering if you meant who was MORE right.

  Ahhhh.... doesn't really matter.... it's a good life lesson, but I tend to lean more towards being perfect at birth and appreciating and respecting life rather than the more Christian theory of needing to be in fear of it all the time. None of it is perfect..... just works better for me.

  Brad
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  12

  Pariah or Prodigal son?

  by caspian in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  who was really right the father or the firstborn son?

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  outbutnotdown

  caspian,

  I think I'll take a stab at your question, however broad.

  I remember always thinking, when I was younger, that the firstborn son got the raw end of the deal, since he had always stayed dedicated, yet never got the feast that his younger brother got. However, when I consider that the father did say that everything of his belonged to his oldest so, I think that he still got his reward.

  But this parable is about God being there for us and he will always be there for us, but he is likewise if we leave, (or sin), for awhile. Good parable, but not completely relative, IMO.

  Have you ever read the Buddhist prodigal son story, where the life lessons are somewhat different?

  Brad
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  25

  Today's JW Is Yesterday's Failure!!!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the typical jehovah's witness no longer is the strong, spiritual giant.

  lately, i hear more and more "very inactive" jws that haven't gone to a congregation meeting in years, still consider themselves good jws.

  they are like "home baptists".

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  outbutnotdown

  Hi minimus,

  What is your point, exactly?

  I agree that a lot of JW's are "devout" despite not doing as much as what is preached that they should be doing. However, I think this has been true for decades. If you get a bunch of wife-abusers together, they will leave their little gathering believing that they are more justified, simply due to the support they have gathered from their peers. It doesn't make it any more right.

  The best that we can do, IMVHO, is to show them how we can be happy outside of their belief system. Love does conquer hate. Good does conquer evil. Or it doesn't...... it's up to each individual to make that determination. We need to try to help our fellowman only to the point where our fellowman will hurt us. Personally, I love as unconditionally as possible my JW family. However, I will not allow myself or my family to suffer any harm at their expense. At this point, conditions are introduced. Everything in balance.

  Brad
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  14

  When & How Did You Get The JW ULTIMATUM?

  by Corvin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  flyinhighnow's recent post about the nephew and his ultimatum email got me to thinking .

  when and how did you get the ultimatum (to come back to jehovah or lose my love and friendship/association) and from whom?.

  corvin

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  outbutnotdown

  Hi Corvin,

  When I was 17 my father was in a suicidal state again (and despite the fact that the rest of my family, (all older), felt that he was just manipulating us and they had all disowned him, I stayed by his side). He promised me that because of my dedication to him, he would never attempt it again. He lied. It was the beginning of the end of the "JW ultimatum".

  The good thing was that, with the JW hierarchy of the father being the head etc., I had begun to realize that this JW God was full of sh*t as far as the love thing goes.

  The last straw was shortly after the birth of my first of four children. My brother called up and reminded me that, if I didn't put myself back in good standing in the JW God's eyes, that my son would die, since I am the head of the household......... same old crap, just different generation...... as much as it sucked to hear that and later, to realise how jaded my brother's view of life and love is, it was the final "ultimatum".

  The rest of my life has been a great, free ride, still full of challenges, but FREE!!!!!!

  I have always loved this quote by, I believe, Montaigne:

  "Man must surely be stark mad. For he cannot create a flea, but he creates Gods by the dozens."

  Brad, of the "I refuse to create any new Gods" class.
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  13

  What has changed since I left/got kicked out in '92?

  by outbutnotdown in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have long ago come to the conclusion that the jw religion is a negative influence on society for many reasons.

  their "love" is so conditional that it doesn't count as love..... their prophecies are contradicted by many different, more accurate dates from which their chronolgy is based (587 b.c.e rather than 607 b.c.e., for example).... and i could go on, but most here have developped an understanding of why the witnesses do not have "the truth", so enough said about why we are where we are.. but what has changed in the last 12 years, since i left?

  i felt that the about-face on the 1995 generation change of thought brought a lot of people out, and thankfully so.

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  outbutnotdown

  Hi all,

  I have long ago come to the conclusion that the JW religion is a negative influence on society for many reasons. Their "love" is so conditional that it doesn't count as love..... their prophecies are contradicted by many different, more accurate dates from which their chronolgy is based (587 B.C.E rather than 607 B.C.E., for example).... and I could go on, but most here have developped an understanding of why the Witnesses DO NOT have "the truth", so enough said about why we are where we are.

  But what has changed in the last 12 years, since I left? I felt that the about-face on the 1995 generation change of thought brought a lot of people out, and thankfully so. But I have been reading other topics about how they seem to not really care about the "new book" part anymore and that how the Governing Body seems to have changed, as far as their power goes. This passiveness could be good in a sense, but it could also be bad. It would likely soften the Witnesses, as a group, as far as how EXTREME they are allowed to appear to be to the general public, but it would tend to not shake peoples' comfort zone enough to allow them to question their faith as a whole.

  I have my entire immediate family still trapped in that religion and I have been waiting patiently for their innate human tendency to see through BULLSH*T to come through, but I now wonder if they will find comfort in the fact that they are becoming better adjusted instead.

  What does anybody else think? Don't worry, I am comfortable enough with where I am in life to stay on the outside but I still have a desire to be reunited with my family as well......... and I was hoping that their rigidity/close-mindedness would force some of my family out.

  Brad