If you haven't already, I would suggest that you head over to www.freedomofmind.com - there's a case assessment that you can fill out (even if you don't actually submit it for their help it can be useful to get you thinking about the mindset of loved one). I also would recommend Steven Hassan's book Freedom of Mind. Educate yourself on the mind control that's been used on your son. The first step is to repair your relationship and try to undo any damage you might've done prior to and just after the cult recruitment. The book I referenced really is written for someone in your exact situation and has a lot of valuable insights for an outsider looking in and it has essentially a step-by-step guide to getting someone to wake up from their indoctrination.
OneEyedJoe
JoinedPosts by OneEyedJoe
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59
How to wake up and reverse the trance???
by J-DUBBED inhow do you wake up someone taken from us by these screwed up people?.
our son was hooked by a jw at the age of 25. within 3 months they were married and we never even new about it.
he is now 29 and has nothing to do with his family(except his sister the odd time, when he needs something) of any freinds.. we are lost and have been for four years.. .
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30
"You can't believe anything science says, they're always changing their minds.."
by disposable hero of hypocrisy ini know this is going to come up in a conversation shortly, how would you respond to this?
i've had it said to me before, specifically about health, one week wine/eggs/milk/axle grease is good for you, next week it's not..
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OneEyedJoe
Those kinds of statements are generally found in women's magazines at the supermarket, not scientific journals.
Some journalist cherry-picks a quote from a medical study without understanding the context or how to frame it and then it gets repeated by your ordinary, average yahoo that also doesn't know how to interpret it in any kind of context.
Yep.
When discussing something somewhat scientific that conflicts with the bible, my father in law always loves to get on stage and say "so I can't remember, is coffee good for you this week or not?" in reference to the frequent news stories that coffee will cause cancer or prevents cancer or whatever. There are a number of misunderstandings that result in this so-called proof that science hasn't got a clue.
1. As creationists love to point out - the human body is incredibly complex and therefore can sometimes be influenced by relatively small factors. This can result in studies that seem to indicate conflicting results. The truth is that many of these results are essentially noise in the data and, to go back to my example, coffee is essentially neither good nor bad for you. When the noise in the data indicates something somewhat shocking/exciting about an everyday item (like coffee, or wine, etc) it is usually heavily reported - it gets people to watch the news, and that's what the media is about, not disseminating accurate information.
2. Often studies are done on very specific effects, which are then simplified for a headline/news story. Imagine if 4 studies are done on coffee - in one the effect of excessive coffee consumption on heart health is studied, in another the effect of moderate consumption is studied, the third investigates a link between coffee consumption and colon cancer, while the fourth looks for a link between coffee and brain cancer. If the results show that moderate consumption of coffee is good for your heart, but excessive consumption is very bad for your heart, you might find that one news station reports that coffee is good for your heart, while another says it's bad for your heart. If coffee seems to increase chances of colon cancer, but decreases chances of brain cancer, you'll hear one story that coffee causes cancer and one that says it prevents it. All of these would be factually correct, but the oversimplification seems to point to a contradiction. The whole of scientific knowledge is pushed forward, but the lay-person is left with the impression that "those scientists can't make up their minds."
3. Science is a process. Sometimes a study can be flawed (or falsified as was the case with the vaccine/autism BS that's been going around for a while) and it won't be discovered for a few years as other scientists try to duplicate the results themselves. This definitely indicates that we probably shouldn't put 100% faith in the latest scientific discoveries if they're only backed by one study or a very small sample size (incedentally, scientists aren't typically the type who ask you to put faith in something - they usually just present the evidence and their conclusions and invite scrutiny). The problem is that some will seize upon this so-called failure of leading-edge science to try to dispute well-established scientific theories. I.e. One study shows coffee is bad for you but was debunked therefore you can't trust evolution. In truth, the fact that science self-corrects and identifies flawed ideas and disproves them should increase our trust in scientific knowledge that has stood the test of time.
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"You can't believe anything science says, they're always changing their minds.."
by disposable hero of hypocrisy ini know this is going to come up in a conversation shortly, how would you respond to this?
i've had it said to me before, specifically about health, one week wine/eggs/milk/axle grease is good for you, next week it's not..
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OneEyedJoe
This is a relatively common logical fallacy used by fundamentalists - inflation of conflict (Google it for example and counter arguments). It is usually accompanied by some quote or explanation of the science that demonstrates a basic misunderstanding of the science.
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Trashed WT's found in Dr.s' waiting room Friday. Do you trash literature you find?
by Wasanelder Once intook the magazines in the waiting room and dumped them in the trash.
was a great feeling.
to think many witnoids wont dare throw out the surplus magazines they have in stacks around the house is amazing.
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OneEyedJoe
Well I came across some magazines (at the literature desk) this weekend. managed to liberate 7 sets for my fireplace.
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61
Zone Visit feedback, from ones still in??
by Crazyguy injust wondering if any one has heard from ones still asleep, what their feedback has been and what comments have been made by the rank and file??.
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OneEyedJoe
Well, a little update - got dragged out in serveus this weekend, and after the meeting my wife was talking to a woman in her 50s (one of those that always dresses 20-30 years younger than she is) who was saying she now had to throw away most of her clothes because they're too tight. In the course of the conversationg I heard my wife say "He (AMIII) shouldn't have said that. He shouldn't be up there making rules like that." So maybe some of what I've said has gotten through to her a little bit. Maybe there's some hope.
The problem, though, is that I don't think she really sees the connection of the fact that this man is a GB member and made claims in his talk that he was essentially speaking on behalf of jesus/jehovah. She's really just in it because of the guilt and for the social life.
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24
new neighbors
by Theredeemer inso, my wife and i purchased a house about a month ago and recently we met our new neighbors.
they are an older couple.
they are very nice and even brought us cookies.. in conversation they brought up that they were mormons and mentioned how much they loved it.
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OneEyedJoe
At first they were preachy but once they knew me and my wife knew alot about their faith and the bible in general then they backed off completely.
Its funny the way things always work out like that. Sounds like you handled it well.
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6
are we loosing the skills/ ability to make freinds and seek mates?
by sowhatnow init occoured to me that so many people in the world in general, have now become tech dependant.. so in my view this has interfered with a childs ability to make freinds simply from initial contact.. people fear each other right off the bat, and are suspicious, rather than the other way around, becasue of the things that go on.
even among those who cliam to be true christains.. there also is a huge amount of people of all ages, who have no clue how to date.. dating websites have flurished, ans has social sites like this one, .
but they are an inaccurate means in my opinion, because not all people on these sites can be trusted.. how do we interpret whats being inplied when text cannot express emotion?.
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OneEyedJoe
Upon writing this post I realized that it may be taken as me attacking you at each point, but that is not my intent. I'm just offerring a differing viewpoint at each step along the way, and splitting up the quotes seemed like the best way to do it. I'm often told that I can be blunt, and that's certainly true, so please realize that I don't mean anything by it, just sharing my thoughts.
it occoured to me that so many people in the world in general, have now become tech dependant.
Don't be so glum. we've always been dependant on technology, but no one is going around saying that we should stop using fire because it's having too great an impact on our way of living. The difference is we've been using fire for thousands of years vs a few decades.
so in my view this has interfered with a childs ability to make freinds simply from initial contact.
It's also improved people's ability to make friends through other means. You're no longer tied down to being forced to be friends exclusively with those in your class or those on the same block.
people fear each other right off the bat, and are suspicious, rather than the other way around, becasue of the things that go on. even among those who cliam to be true christains.
Should we also get rid of cities, then? Any time you increase the level of interaction in society there are going to be people who will take advantage. Just like those who take advantage of people in large cities by selling knock-offs, mugging, conning, etc there will be those same folks on the internet doing the same thing. We haven't abandoned cities because of the tiny minority who take advantage - because on the whole they're beneficial.
there also is a huge amount of people of all ages, who have no clue how to date.
I can tell you from personal experience, that this has been and would be the case regardless of technology.
dating websites have flurished, ans has social sites like this one,
but they are an inaccurate means in my opinion, because not all people on these sites can be trusted.
Nope, just like not every person you bump into on the street can be trusted.
how do we interpret whats being inplied when text cannot express emotion?
I would also object to the premise of this question. Text most certainly can express emotion (otherwise poetry wouldn't exist) it just has to be intentional.
so, what perhaps is the soulution for humans to get back to being able to express themselves properly and make freinds easily?
How does one "express themselves properly?" Who's to define what the proper way to interact is? I personally find it MUCH (by orders of magnitude) easier to express myself in a venue like this one vs a face-to-face conversation. My effectiveness communicating drops off steeply again as the size of the group increases.
I don't think it's the scourge that a lot of folks make it out to be. Yes, social interaction is evolving. People are able to communicate easily with others from varying backgrounds more easily, which will lead to greater understanding between diverse groups. Racism, sexism, homophobia, etc will all diminish the more you interact with people of the group that you're biased against.
Is it a bad thing? It can be, but it doesn't have to be. As the saying goes - all things in moderation. It's worth noting that the internet and technology allows many find human interaction that would otherwise be very difficult for them to get. People like me who are very introverted, loathe small-talk and have trouble picking up on non-verbals. Online forums like this one are invaluable for sharing ideas without having to deal with lots of difficult social rules.
Any time there's some new leap forward there are unintended consequences, but they eventually get reigned in and worked out. You cant expect every problem to be solved immediately, but things do get better at a steady rate over time. Technology is a tool to help us, and indeed it is changing the way people think. It's not necessarily a bad thing, just different. Different isn't always bad, but it does take some getting used to.
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A big bang from a previous universe compacted into one big mass makes more sense than out of nothing....
by EndofMysteries ini've been learning a lot more about the universe, galaxies, planet formations, etc.
it's amazing how stars are constantly recycled, they form from gathering all the dust/gas/mass around them, the heat and pressure as the mass gets larger, producing stronger gravity, and depending on it's makeup creates fusion, turning into a star, then when it dies, it turns into a supernova, explodes, and sends it's matter out there for other stars to form,etc.
now galaxies do the same thing, and supposedly in many billons of years many galaxies will have eaten others, and if blackholes or something pulling in all the stars and mass is at the centers of these galaxies, then eventually everything would turn into one huge mass.
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OneEyedJoe
Interestingly enough, because gravity exists, it is entirely possible for our observable universe to spring from exactly nothing. Cosmology is a fun (maybe I have a weird definition of fun) field to study. The more you research, the more you'll find that our universe springing from nothing (or, depending on the theory, a larger 'sea' of universes) is just as, if not more, likely than the existence of some sort of eternal sentience.
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9
An eager Sister Pioneer approaches the BOE with her plan...
by LogCon insister pioneer, always thinking of how to expose false religion and promote true worship, finds out that many mormons are becoming disillusioned with the mormon faith because of the revelations being exposed on the internet.
if it is exposing the mormons, it would help to expose other false religions.she puts two and two together and comes up with a plan.. after the next meeting she asks the boe to meet with her at the back room.. ' with all in attendance brother jorgenson speaks first.... brother jorgenson: ' sister pioneer, this is most unusual but we know you are excited about something.
tell us what is on your mind.
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OneEyedJoe
I suspect that 90% of jws would fail to see the hypocrisy of encouraging people to research the history of their religion while forbidding such research of their own religion. This is no more hypocritical than going do door to door handing out literature while forbidding the reading of any literature that someone might give to you.
So in summary, brother j would say "great idea!"
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Jehovahs Witnesses costs/benefits analysis
by What is Truth? injehovahs witnesses costs/benefits analysis .
motivated by the 9/15/14 watchtower studied nov 16th.
i chose to take up their odd challenge, on paragraph 16 which is among many suggestions in this article that would bring up questions if followed through by any thinking person.. how do you feel about being a christian?
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OneEyedJoe
Yeah I was thinking about this at the cult meeting today. You well illustrate that all the "benefits" are really costs when you know the truth.
I also looked the part where they basically said that if your kids are having doubts, is not rally because there's some ocular issue to be considered, is because they lack self-confidence it feel that they're being left out.
Ugh. I effing hate this s*** cult.