(let me know if anyone thinks my assumptions are way out of line, or if i've forgotten anything).
basic facts:.
the australian royal commission has 1000+ documented cases of child abuse over 65 years.
The numbers include 125 accused who didn't have any JW punishment dealt out, as they didn't meet the two witness required.
What Bill Bowen says would be true prior to the change when those numbers were collected. After sir82 mentioned this, I think it was 1989ish when that happened. But it's certainly an understatement of numbers of those alleged serious sex offenders.
lies and more lies.
a question was asked by the court on having someone in the room for moral support with a minor child or frightened girl when being questioned by the elders over allegations of child abuse.
the elders book makes it clear no one else is allowed.
Ali's belief was that 'support' was allowing a young woman's fiancee to be sat outside the room and allowing her to take a break from telling 3 men in their 30s intimate details of how she was abused. Counsel made it clear that they weren't buying the CO's fantasies on changes, and the commissioner directly asked him to give an example of a change which had happened. Of course, he couldn't. He was just sure things must have changed because letters have been sent and his religion is always right and wise and...
Think this commission is cutting past the nonsense and WT reasoning.
well i was loathe to start a new thread on the australian royal commission, but i've been reading in thread after thread how jw's are trying to dismiss what's happening with "it's persecution".. if anyone says this to you, just respond "it's not persecution, it's accountability.
they are being called to explain their procedures, and nothing more.".
persecution is hostility against someones religion.this is not against the jw religion, it's against procedures that jw's champion as being 'the best in the world' when in reality, and with a little analysis are proving to be among the most harmful.
For the Lord’s sake subject yourselves to every human creation, whether to a king as being superior or to governors as sent by him to punish wrongdoers but to praise those who do good. For it is the will of God that by doing good you may silence the ignorant talk of unreasonable men.
The governors are wanting to punish wrongdoers. This isn't persecution, allowing them to do that is part of being in subjection to superior authorities. If you're not being praised for doing good and silencing ignoring talk, you're doing it wrong.
(let me know if anyone thinks my assumptions are way out of line, or if i've forgotten anything).
basic facts:.
the australian royal commission has 1000+ documented cases of child abuse over 65 years.
To me, it seems that It is pointing towards numbers which would have almost every congregation having knowledge of at least one person being accused of serious sexual crimes against children within the past 25 years. For such small communities, that's horrific.
most of you, like me, keep yourself informed as to what's happening in jw-land.
like me, you make it your business to know what's going on.
so i'm wondering why the wtbts is allowing eldubs to appear in these inquiries in australia??
I am impressed by the commissioner and the counsel's ability to cut straight through the BS and get to the heart of the matter. It's fantastic watching Watchtower logic being turned on itself like this in public. Horrified too. And ashamed for them because two of the men so far seem to have been absolutely devoid of any compassion as human beings in what bills itself as 'god's loving organisation'. Well, unless one counts compassion towards a pedophile over an abused young woman.
Agree with others that this is no win for them. They've shown in Britain already that they aren't willing to send elders to prison over pedophiles to try to defend non-existant principles here. Australia's commission forces them to make the exact same choice.
i have just finished listening to this man jackson.
i remember him well.
he is twisting things around as much as he is allowed.
The commissioner's comments to him were pretty unambiguous. "The process [ie the judicial committee] inflicted further trauma." And then the question of whether compensation would be appropriate to help pay for medical treatment which Jackson would rather have left in the realms of having scriptures read to people.
Pretty disgraceful really that he couldn't summon up any empathy for someone whose been through so much, or acknowledge that there wasn't a single thought given to her. To see it so openly exposed like that is still shocking even after so long out.
i have just finished listening to this man jackson.
i remember him well.
he is twisting things around as much as he is allowed.
Jackson trying to bs his way through this again. You can see it's absolutely impossible for him to conceive a thought which doesn't portray himself or the WT in the absolute best possible light. The counsel is getting snarkier and snarkier with him after 5 minutes of non-answers about whether he'd ever report a crime to the police.
"When would you contact the police?"
"Do you mean with crime?"
"Yes, that's what the police are generally concerned with. With crime."
the press is reporting that over 1,000 cases of abuse were hidden from authorities in australia.. australia has around 68,000 publishers.. if you that ratio applied to the u.s. also, there could be over 14,700 cases that were covered up here.. if the ratio held the same worldwide, that would be over 117,600 cases.. just let that sink in a little..
Thank you.
edit: so to add to those 190 would be the 125 who didn't receive any form of judicial committee due to the two witness rule. So 215 minimum since they started to collect records of those ones, and it doesn't include those df'd nor those who were never reported at all. Starting to see from their own records just how bad they've allowed this to become, and how many people's lives have been affected because they failed to even meet the most basic duty of care. I know Bill Bowen raised this many years ago, but they've managed to evade revealing it in the States to date even if it costs them cash to try to keep it quiet.
the press is reporting that over 1,000 cases of abuse were hidden from authorities in australia.. australia has around 68,000 publishers.. if you that ratio applied to the u.s. also, there could be over 14,700 cases that were covered up here.. if the ratio held the same worldwide, that would be over 117,600 cases.. just let that sink in a little..
The 1006 case files include 190 who received reproof only. 11 of those received reproof multiple times.
Can I just clarify something sir82 - are you saying that those must be after a change of policy in the 90s, and that prior to then there would be absolutely no record held by a branch office if someone was merely reproved for a serious sexual crime?
Absolutely on this is just those which were reported and then ended up in case file. This is minimum numbers really. And in such a relatively small community.
i have just finished listening to this man jackson.
i remember him well.
he is twisting things around as much as he is allowed.
Horley's testimony to direct questions from the commissioner has destroyed their defence from civil cases where they have a duty of care to protect by letting people know there is an abuser in their midst. In fact, he near enough says that the protection is for the abuser (and in this case his reputation) and not the congregation or those who've suffered abuse.
Those who are standing up and speaking out and reporting to this commission are doing far more to protect the congregation and the vulnerable within it than the elders supposedly responsible for doing that.
