Mephis

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Posts by Mephis

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  13

  Why is the GB so concerned with the well-being of the accused in matters of sexual abuse?

  by paradisebeauty in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i'm reading some documents from the royal commission and i don't get it, why so much concern for the accused and his reputation???

  i'm starting to think maybe some gb members have things like this in their past, because a normal human being would not take the side of a sexual predator over a child....united states branche x e c u t i v e o f f i c e sto watch tower societyaustraliagsc/as january 21, 1999 no.

  176sit is understood that if the law requires elders to report cases of child abuse, they should complywith the law and do so.

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  Mephis

  Because they've got so lost in the idea of redemption for the sinner that they've never ever really considered how the survivor feels. They're meant to forgive after all... Doesn't really work when it's about serious criminal offences and not someone saying they didn't like the colour of your shoes, but that's the danger of reading the Bible as providing a how-to manual for life beyond 'love thy neighbour as yourself'.
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  29

  Jesus is not Michael the Archangel here is why

  by paradisebeauty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one of the biggest missunderstanding and unbiblical teaching of the jw's is that jesus is michael the archangel.

  here is what proffessor anthony buzzard has to say about this:.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puqzffyxno0.

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  Mephis

  The Essenes seem to have had at least two messiahs, and the priestly one actually addresses his army with reference to Michael in the Qumran scrolls. At least 3 of the supposed archangels are referenced as being part of the whole shebang but they then still need God to come and help too. They're all kind of distinct figures from my reading of what's been translated and made available from Qumran. I'm kind of wary of Mark Amaru Pinkham's interpretation there.

  Jude referencing Enoch really strongly hints towards Michael not being the same as Jesus, at least in the view of whoever wrote Jude. Michael's fifth of the seven in Enoch 20, so you're struggling to see how he's any more special than any other of the named super-angels within those writings - Tobit even has one of the others doing the 'I'm going to pretend to be a man' thing. Jude's only short but it still manages to throw in a Michael reference without linking it to Jesus, and so one is almost forced to assume a reading similar to that found in Enoch of what/who Michael is. There's an interesting theory that angels (especially Michael) became the replacement other deities for many Jews in the second temple period, perhaps Catholic saints is a parallel there, though others will no doubt have their own opinions on that.

  But really, it seems to me the whole 'Michael is Jesus' thing is kind of the JWs trying to find a way to keep Jesus distinct from God. Doesn't really make sense to me, but then I don't do the believer thing and Revelation has always struck me as having to be seen with all the other apocalyptic stuff coming out of early Christianity and also pre-70 CE Judaism. It's all very Gnostic in some ways, so I guess they're right with following the early Christian church there - they're just following the bunch who got excommunicated ;)
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  18

  GOD in the Beginning

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the ancient hebrews left two bequests:.

  a universal, single god named yahweh;.

  a series of writings identified as sacred scripture..

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  Mephis

  Really nice introduction and summary Doug.
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  21

  Serious question about the Australian RC and the WTBTS.

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i have not been in a position to watch all of the interviews, so i'm sure that i missed a few things.

  here is my question.

  were either elders or ministerial servants accused of sexually abusing children, or were the accused just lowly r&f publishers or bible studies?

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  Mephis

  Pre-hearing, the WBTS tried to argue that only elders and ministerial servants accused of abuse should be counted as their responsibility - and then only if it didn't involve abuse within their own families. (There are letters from their solicitor trying to make that case in the exhibits.) The commission rejected that argument as their focus has not just been on 'who', but also the culture/context/processes within JWs and how that influences both abuse and also the response to reports of abuse. But the two examples provided by the survivors' personal testimony did involve an elder, who was acting in loco parentis to a teenage girl, and a ministerial servant who abused his own daughters.
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  18

  Jehovah’s Witnesses face child sexual-abuse investigation in Australia - Washington Post article

  by defender of truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  of the religious and nonreligious groups being investigated, the jehovahs witnesses are exceptional, experts say.. in a converted office in downtown sydney, the organizations doctrines and practices are being parsed by lawyers, victims and journalists, providing rare insight into one of the christian worlds most conservative churches.. .

  the church, which was founded in pennsylvania during the 1870s to promote a 1st-century interpretation of the bible, has emerged as the least able or willing to deal with sexual abuse within its ranks, said anne cossins, an associate law professor at the university of new south wales and an expert in sex crimes who is a consultant for the inquiry.. .

  i find their approach to the issue and victims extraordinarily bizarre almost medieval, she said in an interview.. .

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  Mephis

  DoT, that's Warwick in the UK. I think the Warwick being referenced is the one in New York where they're building the new compound :D
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  24

  Article- Child checks for all religious leaders, inquiry recommends

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/in-depth/child-checks-for-all-religious-leaders-inquiry-recommends/story-fngburq5-1227486717033.

  by: rick morton .

  from: the australian .

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  Mephis

  I think there may need to be a judgement made somewhere along the line on whether or not treating children as adults (as they are by JWs rather than eg having them in a Sunday School or having child specific activities, they actively baptise minors and even have rules on how best to shun them as they would an adult) counts as more than incidental to the role of the 'religious leaders' within a congregation. On first glance, I'm really not sure, although the report also makes clear that supervised contact makes no difference to the requirement to have the checks done.

  (in Britain, they don't meet the current requirements to have the equivalent checks done)
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  30

  Will Jehovah`s Witnesses join with other religions in Compensation Payouts ?

  by smiddy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  justice mcclellen asked g.jackson about compensation for victims of child abuse , and mcclellan suggested it be by a consortium of groups , presumably religious and secular in nature as a pool to dispense approppiate compensation to all of the victims involved .. g.jackson hesitated and said they would have to look at the details of that proposal , before committing to it.. jehovah`s witnesses consider themselves as the only true religion and ,all others as false religion .. they take pains to separate themselves from from any association with other religions , not even being included in newspaper notices about church services.they want to keep themselves separate and distinct from false religion as they see them.. so how do you think they will handle this suggestion / requirement ?

  will they join in aligning themselves with "babylon the great" in compensation .?.

  didn`t they align themselves with another religion in the u.s.a. some years ago , that had to do with the w.t.

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  Mephis

  What is very unlikely to be on the table is for them to declare that redress is available and for them to then draw up their own rules for being able to claim it - which I'd suggest would be their ideal outcome if forced to make provision on their own. The commission's papers already say that individual funds have to also have totally independent means of making a claim so a survivor never is forced to deal with an organisation itself.

  Using the commission's figures, with the known number of survivors, and one suggested average figure for redress for each, it comes to a potential liability of something like $113m (Aus)/£53m/$83m (US). One of the WBTS' arguments, even to this commission, has been that they should only be held liable for abuse carried out by elders and ministerial servants. That hasn't carried any weight whatsoever with the commission, but when O'Brien talked about 'fairness' of proposed schemes that is the context.

  Can see them trying to drag this out for as long as they can really because it very much makes them not the special snowflakes they try to pretend they are, but yet another religion with a serious issue which handwaving away hasn't solved. They'll use 'be no part of the world' to defend this. Until the bad publicity becomes too much, and the court cases are lost and they realise this may be cheaper than paying £1m a time to the lawyers in each case, and then they'll decide it's like an insurance scheme so scripturally fine after all.
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  13

  Sydney Morning Herald Headline about Compensation for Victims May Cause JW Organization to Gasp

  by steve2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  geoffrey jackson's unfailingly diplomatic responses during friday's royal commission hearings have undoubtedly limited damage to the reputation of the jw organization - but i could never again imagine the watchtower and awake!

  magazines criticizing other religions over their responses to child sexual abuse within their parishes.

  too close for comfort.

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  Mephis

  The scriptural principle they'll look to first will be Revelation 18:4. The Commission will need to offer them a library pass to overcome that objection.
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  100

  GB member Geoffrey Jackson is lying!

  by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  okay, i know the royal commission hasn't started yet.

  but i'm confident enough that he will be telling some whoppers.

  so i thought i'd be the first to get a thread started for something that will begin... very soon now!.

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  Mephis

  @Billy - the lady commissioner is a psychiatrist who specialises in working with children.
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  100

  GB member Geoffrey Jackson is lying!

  by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  okay, i know the royal commission hasn't started yet.

  but i'm confident enough that he will be telling some whoppers.

  so i thought i'd be the first to get a thread started for something that will begin... very soon now!.

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  Mephis

  Another huge whopper is that elders were expected to use their conscience and report regardless of law. No, they're expected to phone the service department who'll tell them not to report regardless of their consciences.