Posts by Narkissos

10

spit

by peacefulpete in

mark 7:33-37: the healing of a dumb man by putting of fingers in his ears and the application of spit to the tongue .

mark 8:22-26: the healing of a blind man by the application of spit to the eyes .

john 9:1-12: the healing of the blind man by the application of mud made of spit and then bathing .

Mark 6:13 and James 5:14 use aleiphô in a similar therapeutic context (in other contexts, Matthew 6:17; Mark 16:1; Luke 7:38,46; John 11:2; 12:3), but I fail to see the relation with spitting. And the Greek NT word for "poor" is ptôchos, unrelated to ptuô as far as I know (except on the grounds of random vicinity in alphabetical order, which could as well bring ptôma, "corpse", or ptôsis, "fall", into the picture...). So I still think the Markan occurrences testify only to magical practice, with little theological overtones if any.

However, unsurprisingly, the Johannine occurrence fits the Gnostic symbolical paradigm. With such evocative terms as "mud", pèlos, typical of the "potter" creation motif in Isaiah 45:9 etc.; Job 10:9; 33:6; 38:14 (cf. Genesis 2:7, other LXX Greek term) and "anointing", epichriô, related to chrisma/christos.

10

spit

by peacefulpete in

mark 7:33-37: the healing of a dumb man by putting of fingers in his ears and the application of spit to the tongue .

mark 8:22-26: the healing of a blind man by the application of spit to the eyes .

john 9:1-12: the healing of the blind man by the application of mud made of spit and then bathing .

Narkissos

Thanks Pete. In the Markan context, it is a very interesting element of the old tradition portraying Jesus (= Simon Magus?) as a Magician / Miracle worker. In GMark no theological symbolism is apparent (contrasting with GJohn), and both Matthew and Luke are uneasy enough with the detail as to drop it...

29

A question for former pioneers.

by JV in

jw
friends

everytime you go to an assembly or to a convention or the co pays a visit, there's always a call for people to pioneer.

they always drag out a couple of pioneers on to the stage and "interview" them.

the one question they always ask is if the pioneers have any regrets over pioneering.

Narkissos

I certainly regret not to have used my youth better (especially as regards education), but I must admit at that time I generally enjoyed it. The best of it was certainly when I resumed as a special pioneer after resigning from Bethel. I gradually stopped using the WT literature -- preaching and teaching with the Bible only. Quite an experience, especially in the cong. (As could be expected, after a few months I was disfellowshipped.)

60

Will science ever replace religion?

by onacruse in

first, there've been some really good threads here lately...i've been somewhat pre-occupied with a rather laborious personal project, so i haven't been able to engage myself in your conversations as much as i'd otherwise like; but i like to watch .

but, to the point: recently, scott atran (anthropologist, author of in gods we trust, and now working with the national center for scientific research in paris, and at the university of michigan) gave an interview in discover magazine.

the topic was "the surprises of suicide terrorism," but the concluding question (and answer) was what struck me most:.

Narkissos

IMHO religion has already been replaced, in large sections of Western society (and probably more so in France than in the US) -- though not by science only, also by secular art (including literature, music or fine arts which have escaped the religious realm centuries ago) -- and, on the grey border between science and art, the so-called human sciences (philosophy, psychology, and so forth). Taking those domains into the secular alternative to religion would change the answer to the question, I guess.

21

What if.....

by laurelin in

jw
friends

i can't help but discover things that make me have serious doubts about jehovah's witnesses as a whole.

but... and this is a big but.... what if they are god's organisation?

i feel as if i'm being blackmailed... if i don't make a go of this religion i'm effectivly killing my young daughter if it is jehovah's organisation.. my mum ( a pioneer and a lovely woman!

Narkissos

((((Laurelin))))

Please remember those questions are not YOUR questions. Most of them are just plain silly, they are designed to trap minds and lives. It is a sick game, you have not decided the rules, and you are not obliged to play. Just step out of it and start thinking of your life on the basis of what YOU know, feel and desire.

"I do not know whether he is a sinner. One thing I do know, that though I was blind, now I see." (John 9:25)

If there is a God such as the WT teaches, then his curse is really better than his blessing. You're going through a nightmare. I'm sure the warm light of reality will soon wake you up, and you'll be able to laugh at it.

Take care,

Narkissos

37

What must we do to be saved?

by Dawn in

jw's love this topic and have a long list of "do's & don'ts" that need to be completed in order to be saved.

as you all know - it is a "works based" belief - if you do enough you might make it.

i have struggled with that concept since i was little, wondering how in the world we could ever do enough to be considered worthy.

Narkissos

The "theory of rewards" was quite popular in the Evangelical churches I associated with right after I was disfellowshipped (almost 18 years ago now). I personally never bought into it, cause it sounded as a cheap and shallow way to harmonize (from Paul's perspective, cf. 1 Corinthians 3) a number of very different outlooks, betraying the originality and completeness of each one.

My take is that there are a number of "ways to salvation" in the N.T. And a corresponding number of "salvations". Let's take as one example the Sermon on the Mount. It doesn't imply "faith", "ransom sacrifice", "resurrection" and the like. A change of outlook, attitude, behavior, makes all the difference: stop judging, and you won't be judged. This was not meant to be a gem on the Pauline crown of "salvation/justification by faith alone". It is a quite different "Gospel" which stands on its own. And the same could be said of many others.

30

Test your morals

by Brummie in

jw
friends

be honest now!!!!!.

with all your honour and dignity, what would you do?

this test only has one question, but it's a very important one.. .

Narkissos

Definitely black & white... LOL!

20

WHO READ THE NEWSPAPER TODAY?

by bisous in

jw
friends

i'm interested in learning how our jwd members obtain information?

do you read your news?

get it from radio?

Narkissos

Bonjour Bisous,

Le Monde, Le Monde diplomatique, Le Canard enchaîné, Charlie-Hebdo, Le Monde libertaire + France-Infos and Internet...

30

Where did evil come from?

by laurelin in

i'm new here, i only just found this site the other day so i don't know if i'm repeating something that has already been covered.

i'm sorry if i am.. can anyone help me on the scripture in genesis 2v9.. it says that god created two trees, the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and bad.

these were put into the garden before adam and obviously before adam and eve sinned.. if this is the case, does that mean god created bad?

Narkissos

Welcome Laurelin,

Just two remarks on your interesting question:

1) The idea that "God" created "evil" was an essential part of the first conception of monotheism (over against Persian dualism):

I form light and create darkness,
I make weal and create woe;
I Yhwh do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

However, monotheism did not maintain itself at this level of "purity" (and sterility) and soon the character of "Satan" was opposed to God, to separate the source of moral "evil" from "God".

On Satan cf. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/66758/1.ashx

2) In Genesis 2--3, IMO, moral "evil" is not involved at all. The story is totally amoral if you think of it. The expression is "knowledge of good and bad", and the key word is knowledge (vs. "life"). In Hebrew the opposition of contraries is a very common way of expressing totality (e.g. "from the small to the great"). The "good" and "bad" may be understood in a very practical way (such as in "good and bad mushrooms"). The story is constructed after the universal puzzle of homo sapiens (= "knowing" man): man has knowledge like the gods, yet he is mortal like the beasts -- and he knows it.

Cf. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/66748/1.ashx

15

OK, here's another "Hmmmm" bible-thread

by robhic in

gen 3:22

and jehovah god said, behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever- (asv)

ok, putting aside all the trinitarian implications and the contradictory/chronological problems in genesis so as not to cloud the issue, how can this (above) be accurate?.

Narkissos

Two links on an interesting site:

http://www.bibleorigins.net/EdensTreeofKnowledgeLife.html

http://www.bibleorigins.net/genesisgenesis.html