Narkissos

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Posts by Narkissos

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  52

  Another Trinity Thread

  by AwSnap in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  can you clarify something for me please?

  the jw's teach that most (to them, that means all) religions teach the trinity as being that god almighty, jesus, and the holy spirit are literally one, meaning the exact same 'person', none higher than the other, inseparable, the exact same thing.

  they mainly use catholics and baptists, in my experience.

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  Narkissos

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175020/1/Clarifying-the-Trinity-Doctrine
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  74

  Why don't JWs fear God or God's Wrath?

  by Deputy Dog in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yesterday (see http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/182849/1/why-do-jws-fear-satan-and-demons-so-much ) we seemed to confirm that jws fear satan more than god.

  in fact, angel eyes (after she told us about her encounter with a man who had been "dabbling in black magic and witch craft",) made this comment:oh and i dont fear jah....why on earth would i fear my loving father?.

  now to be fair to angel eyes, she says she doesn't fear satan.

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  Narkissos

  Belief in, and fear of Satan probably culminated in the late middle-ages; Luther's way of recounting his conversations with the devil already show a certain (literary, humoristic) distantiation from it. It is certainly very low among Catholics (at least in traditionally Catholic countries) now.

  In a sense JWs are closer to a medieval mindset with the huge difference that it is a subculture, and as a result their mind (like that of all "literalist" or "fundamentalist" believers, more or less) is a mix of two very different worlds. The supernatural understanding is switched off most of the time but it is lurking and can pop up anytime, as soon as there is a problem with the ordinary, "rational" functioning.

  Now do JWs fear Satan more than Jehovah? I suppose it depends, but looking back to the fears I remember from my JW period, I personally wouldn't construe it that way. I think what I really feared was rejection, separation from God rather than punishment. And in its essence this fear was very similar to that of "hell" (as I recall from early Catholic childhood). "Satan" and "demons" on the one hand, "Armaggedon" on the other hand, were just names and figures that would fill that void -- but inasmuch as they were "something", they were actually less dreadful than the void itself. And at this point it mixes with very personal, non-religious emotions and fears from infancy. Fear of the dark. Nightmares of the "underworld" and the animal souls there. The unbearable pain of hearing my father say to me: "I don't love you anymore" and me crying "Love me, please." When you search for the roots of fear you may get very far away from theological generalities -- although they can be expressed in theological generalities.
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  23

  Musings of a manic mind

  by paul from cleveland in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if time is infinite, how can we be alive now?

  wouldnt everything that can happen have happened already?

  given an infinite amount of time, wouldnt the sun have burned out and the universe reached the ultimate state of entropy?

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  Narkissos

  I think you are confusing time and space as mental/cognitive categories (which are infinite but do not "exist," just like numbers or geometrical figures in se)and space-time as physical reality...

  Cf. a very similar thread not long ago: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/182676/1/Creation-struggling
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  4

  1 Thess 4:13 Changed NWT

  by garlic81 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1 thess 4:13 was changed as well from "sleeping in death" to "falling asleep in death".

  so instead of just being ignorant and sorrowing about those who have already died, it could be of those who are close to dying as well.

  they themselves shouldn't be sorrowing excessively because they have a hope talked about in 14..

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  Narkissos

  That's rather strange because in v. 13 hoi koimômenoi (genitive tôn koimômenôn) is a present participle (those who are sleeping), different from the aorist which is already rendered as "those who have fallen asleep" in v.14 and 15 (also1 Corinthians 15:18, hoi koimèthentes) in the pre-2006 NWT. Maybe you misunderstood something.
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  59

  Is it disrespectful to call GOD by his name JEHOVAH?

  by foolsparadise in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been thinking about this alot recently.

  calling our god the creator by his first name jehovah takes alot of nerve.

  my 10 year oll son doesnt walk around calling me by my first name.

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  Narkissos

  slimboyfat,

  I could not agree more -- especially on the "linear" illusion.

  Now where does that leave the notion of "regular Jew" and "Jews" in your previous post?

  Did "1st-century Jews" believe in soul survival, resurrection, torment in Gehenna, a davidic Messiah, heavenly Melchizedeq, the Son of Man, etc.? Yes AND no. Some definitely did and some definitely didn't. What would a "regular Jew" believe? Just anything, depending on his personal trajectory in, through or between different circles. What did "Jews" do with the divine name? The answers are all over the place and you can locate a "regular Jew" just anywhere.

  Now when it comes to the NT texts it is different. They have their agendas, ideologies, rhetorics which situate them somewhere on the map (geographically, culturally and ideologically). And some of them do refer to and use the themeof the "divine name" in a number of ways. It's the field of exegesis which works on a specific object (the texts). Here we are not in the desert open to any fantasy but in a highly constructed place which limits the play of imagination.
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  74

  Why don't JWs fear God or God's Wrath?

  by Deputy Dog in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yesterday (see http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/182849/1/why-do-jws-fear-satan-and-demons-so-much ) we seemed to confirm that jws fear satan more than god.

  in fact, angel eyes (after she told us about her encounter with a man who had been "dabbling in black magic and witch craft",) made this comment:oh and i dont fear jah....why on earth would i fear my loving father?.

  now to be fair to angel eyes, she says she doesn't fear satan.

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  Narkissos

  DD,

  To answer your question, I think PSacramento's approach illustrates very well the current mainstream Christian attitude I have perceived, here in France, both among Catholic and "historical" Protestant churches: aside from pathological cases, "fear of God" is hardly relevant anymore to their faith and, when it comes to the Bible, tends to be explained away (cf. my previous remark about "fear" becoming "respect, reverence etc." in so-called "dynamic" translations).

  Among Evangelicals -- who are a small minority here (thank God? ;)), and a very divided one at that (thank who?) -- I think "fear of God" is mostly referred to rhetorically, in a kind of repulsive way: as an argument in hardcore evangelism (what if you die tonight? fear of judgement and hell is the bogeyman supposed to push you into Jesus' arms), or more often as a counter-measure of grace: I/we shouldhave been condemned but I was / we were saved. As this practically always combines with the "once saved always saved" dogma, it is safe to say that when Evangelicals refer to the fear of God they practically never mean their (current) fear of God. They mean the fear you should have if you're not "born again" or the fear they had or should have had beforethey were.

  That's why I said that "fear of God" plays a comparatively more important role in the life of most JWs; they certainly do not regard it as valid just for the outsiders or before they became JWs -- even to them nothing is sure, ever. They are never past fear.
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  74

  Why don't JWs fear God or God's Wrath?

  by Deputy Dog in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yesterday (see http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/182849/1/why-do-jws-fear-satan-and-demons-so-much ) we seemed to confirm that jws fear satan more than god.

  in fact, angel eyes (after she told us about her encounter with a man who had been "dabbling in black magic and witch craft",) made this comment:oh and i dont fear jah....why on earth would i fear my loving father?.

  now to be fair to angel eyes, she says she doesn't fear satan.

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  Narkissos

  Fear of gods was the very essence of religion in the ancient world and modern religion tends to define itself very differently (JWs included to an extent). Christianity -- especially in its Pauline and Johannine forms -- has certainly contributed to this shift of emphasis.

  Just see how "fear of God" is "translated" in most "reader-friendly" translations: respect, reverence, not fear, terror or dread (as is often implied in the original languages).

  That being said, I think your assumption is unfair. Imo the average JW fears his/her version of "God" much more than the average (non-JW) Christian does.
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  25

  Do you still want to live forever?

  by paul from cleveland in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you still have the desire to live forever on a paradise earth?.

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  Narkissos

  No. In fact one important moment of my "exit" from the WT was when I realised I never did.

  P.S. Woody Allen also said: "Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end."
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  5

  idolatry

  by paul from cleveland in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is the attention directed toward the accomplishments of the organization really a form of idolatry, as some contend, or is it simply following jesus' admonition to "let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your father in heaven"?.

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  Narkissos

  From the same general context as "Let your light shine" (Sermon on the Mount):

  Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them; for then you have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be praised by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be done in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
  And whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, so that they may be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
  (...)
  And whenever you fast, do not look dismal, like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces so as to show others that they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that your fasting may be seen not by others but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. Without this dimension of secrecy people can't praise the Father (note that the Father-in-heaven is the Father-in-secret) without praising you -- actually they are much more likely to praise you than God.

  The ultimate trick of hypocrisy (and idolatry perhaps) is making God's "name" your brand name.
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  6

  untitled

  by behemot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  source: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/its_a_gateway_drug_to_a_lifeti.php.

  (the blog of biologist mz myers).

  it's a gateway drug to a lifetime of depravity!category: religion.

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  Narkissos

  The list of comments (in just 2 days) is impressive...