pillsbury

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Posts by pillsbury

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  15

  Not enough reaching out

  by pillsbury in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the society has really been pushing hard lately (i know, like always) to do more and reach out.

  there is at least one reason for do this that i can think of.

  i have many friends around the country and they went to the elder school last year.

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  pillsbury

  The Society has really been pushing hard lately (I know, like always) to do more and reach out. There is at least one reason for do this that I can think of. I have many friends around the country and they went to the elder school last year. In all the cases, it was brought up that there were far more elders than MS's at their respective schools (elders and MS's go to different schools). For most of them it was about a 2 to 1 ratio.

  This is a great change from 15-20 years ago or more. There always, for the most part, used to be more servants than elders. Now it is reversed. As the current elders start to die off or quit there is not going to be enough replacements to backfill. As has been brought out before here, the younger generation is just leaving and the ones that are staying around are not doing much. I think the sqeeze is already being felt and is just going to get worse as time goes on.
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  14

  Secret literature

  by HarryPotter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  almost the majority of us know that there is a secret book just for the elders which is called "pay attention..." everybody knows that the society defends herself saying that the book is not secret becasue it was shown to the witnesses in an assambley and there is a picture of it in the book proclaimers so she askes how the book could be a secret.

  well, acccording to my dicctionary for learners of english says: secret; something that is secret is known about by only a small number of peple, and is not told or shown to anyone else.

  so the book is secret.

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  pillsbury

  I would highly doubt there is a CD just for elders. The Society NEVER puts anything sensitive on electronic media. Especially if they are handing it out to the elders. They do not trust them to keep it to themselves, it will eventually get out. Also they are very parinoid about other people getting access to things they shouldn't. That is why they direct elders not to keep anything on their computers and not to make any "electronic copies" of any forms they may use. They are not even suppose to use cordless phones when talking about sensitive matters as there may be a chance of someone listening in.

  What may be the case is some elder put together his own CD but I highly doubt it came of Brooklyn.
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  26

  Is It Possible To Sucessfully SUE The Society Or Elders???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  sometimes we read of how, if a person gets bothered by the elders or organization, they'll sue.

  do you think this could ever work??

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  pillsbury

  Yes, I believe it is possible but have not heard of any specific instances. Most of these types of cases never make it to trial.They get settled out of court. That is why they changed things a few years back( 88-89 i think). They forsaw all the upcoming trouble, especially with the abuse cases and started to disavow having influenced anything from a judicial nature. By having that seperation they are trying distance themselves from these type of issues.

  They will try to help when an elder has to go to court because they don't need him saying something that will get them into trouble. By offering help on the side, they are helping themselves. They need to keep very clear the boundries of eccliastical privledge in court. This is why they will join with other religions in appeals on various issues (like taxes) because it is in their own best interests.
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  67

  KingDumb Halls Want Court Order To Keep Pedophile Documents Secret!

  by Country Girl in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  congregations want court order .

  by jim mcbride.

  jehovah's witnesses congregations in amarillo and dumas are seeking a court order protecting them from releasing documents in a lawsuit filed by a woman who claims a former church elder sexually abused her.

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  pillsbury

  All of this is very typical.

  Once the CO was directly asked if a known pediphile came into the congregation could you warn others. The answer was absolutely not. The elders were to in a sense "babysit" the person. They had to make sure he never worked with young ones in field service and if they were getting friendly with a family to talk to him- NOT the family. The problem is you cannot watch a person 24 hours a day. The elders and their families would be protected but not the rest of the congregation.

  They are more worried about protecting $ and reputation than in protecting the congregations.
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  2

  Bible= publications

  by pillsbury in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have never really noticed how much the society equates their literature with the bible.

  there is an interesting quote in the last paragraph of this week's bookstudy out of the worship the only true god book.

  the chapter deals with the issue of univeral sovereignty, it states "how vital it is that we cultivate the habit now of responding positively to whatever direction jehovah gives us, whether through his word or through his organization.

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  pillsbury

  I have never really noticed how much the Society equates their literature with the bible. There is an interesting quote in the last paragraph of this week's bookstudy out of the Worship the Only True God book. The chapter deals with the issue of univeral sovereignty, it states "How vital it is that we cultivate the habit now of responding positively to whatever direction Jehovah gives us, whether through his Word or through his organization. Doing so, we show our genueine devotion to him as the Universal Sovereign.

  For myself, I did take at face value what they presented in the literature because I knew they would never knowingly be dishonest. If something was stated that seemed a little over the top I would just dismiss it has someone's opinion or pet peeve. The thing that bugs me now is that they do go beyond the things written in the Bible and twist things to fit through own ideas and expect people to follow them as if they were from God himself. Somebody else's conscience or opinion should not be forced onto another. Especially in those areas where there is no clear direction. I think it is wrong to be on either end of the spectrum when it comes to this. The bible even brings this out.
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  19

  Appealing a Disfellowshipping

  by Nosferatu in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  have any of you ever had a successful appeal to a disfellowshipping?

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  pillsbury

  Rarely does it happen. It is very much like Mulan said. Here is part of a post I just did on another thread-

  One other thing they have clarified is in the elder book it makes the statement "On occasion it may take more than one meeting to reach the wrongdoer's heart and move him to repentance." They said this doesn't mean to meet more than once with a person. Too many elders were trying to help people by meeting with them more than once. They said almost all cases can be handled in one visit. This goes to show there is no concern for the person, just the rules. One experience I heard that made me sick is a person appealed the decision to disfellowship and the appeal committee upheld it. One of them said that they believed she was repentant when he/she met with them but she wasn't with the original committee so he/she was disfellowshipped. The logic is an appeal committe doesn't retry a case, it just looks for any outstanding mistakes the 1st committe may have done.

  One other thing they don't tell people unless they ask is they can appeal in writing to the local Branch if they feel both appeal committees are in error. Then someone from Service will review the writeups from both committee's to see if there was any outstanding error in judgement.
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  23

  DF'ing: The "Right Kind" Of Repentance.

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i've heard of judicial committees df'ing people because their repentance, although genuine, was of the wrong kind.. for years now, elders have been told to make absolutely sure that a persons abject repentance, which might include copious weeping and even hysteria, is to be of no avail if:.

  they suspect that the accused's being sorry is only the fact that they are feeling sorry for themselves.. they suspect that the accused is showing sorrow only for the fact that they have been found out.. anyone else come across this?.

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  pillsbury

  This is very true. A person may be repentant but they will still be disfellowshipped. Some of the big things they harp on at the elder meetings is:

  Wickedness or Weakness? Has it been practiced (which really means more than once) or was it a one time thing?

  Is their sorrow equel to the degree of sin. For example, if a person does something once and they confess they will more than likely be shown mercy. If they have done it multiple times and had an oportunity to come forward and they didn't and were caught, it will be much more difficult for them not to be disfellowshipped. It depends on the makeup of the JC. If a person has shown a pattern of doing a certain type of sin, like being reproved or disfellowshipped before for it, it really is a slamdunk according to the jc. This is a big point because if the jc doesn't think the repentance is equal to the "crime" the person is disfellowshipped. If a person does a lot of things they ARE going to be disfellowshipped because they would never be able to show equal sorrow in their eyes.

  One other thing they have clarified is in the elder book it makes the statement "On occasion it may take more than one meeting to reach the wrongdoer's heart and move him to repentance." They said this doesn't mean to meet more than once with a person. Too many elders were trying to help people by meeting with them more than once. They said almost all cases can be handled in one visit. This goes to show there is no concern for the person, just the rules. One experience I heard that made me sick is a person appealed the decision to disfellowship and the appeal committee upheld it. One of them said that they believed she was repentant when he/she met with them but she wasn't with the original committee so he/she was disfellowshipped. The logic is an appeal committe doesn't retry a case, it just looks for any outstanding mistakes the 1st committe may have done.
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  26

  Finally saying hello

  by pillsbury in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been lurking here for quite a while and have decided to officially introduce myself.

  i am still an active jw but i am in a holding pattern of sorts right now because of many of the things i have read on this form.

  they truely have been eye openers.

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  pillsbury

  Thanks everyone. I will keep all these good suggestions in mind.
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  26

  Finally saying hello

  by pillsbury in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been lurking here for quite a while and have decided to officially introduce myself.

  i am still an active jw but i am in a holding pattern of sorts right now because of many of the things i have read on this form.

  they truely have been eye openers.

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  pillsbury

  Hello all. I have been lurking here for quite a while and have decided to officially introduce myself. I am still an active JW but I am in a holding pattern of sorts right now because of many of the things I have read on this form. They truely have been eye openers. I really don't know what direction I am going to take but plan on taking it very slow because of family. I just wanted to say thank you all the insightfull info that is presented here. It is nice to hear both sides of the story so a complete picture is developed.
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  1

  Call for Contributions

  by pillsbury in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry if this has been brought up before.

  there have been many threads lately about the lastest article and upcoming service meeting parts on "giving".

  i have always wondered why they always have the article on contributions in one of the november issues.

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  pillsbury

  Sorry if this has been brought up before. There have been many threads lately about the lastest article and upcoming Service Meeting parts on "giving". I have always wondered why they always have the article on contributions in one of the November issues. Well I came accross an interesting article in another magagzine I was reading. It was asking for money ( it is a non-profit organization). The reason is for tax purposes. If you contribute in different specified ways you can take advantage of the tax breaks for this year. This must be the same reason the WT comes out with it also. For the "wealthy friends" to contribute to them for the tax break opportunities. Though the begging has been especially strong this year.