I think niceness on the part of wordly people and showing that they are not horrible like the watchtower made them out to be does help. But niceness alone is not going to be enough to convert them. However going on the offensive makes them become defensive and shuts down their ability to do anything but spit out more watchtower propoganda. There really is no good way to go about it.
Mysterious
JoinedPosts by Mysterious
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Does niceness work to convert a cult member ?
by kls ini am not talking about screaming at them but i know many talk of helping a person out of a cult with kindness.
has anyone really helped a cult member out with it ?
my own experience kindness has just helped me get walked all over.
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I'm a rare breed: I don't know any Christmas Carols
by Nosferatu inmy wife is absolutely amazed that i don't know any christmas carols.
she's asked me if i know the words to hallmark the harold angel something and i say "no".
as a child, i was exposed to them in elementary, but like a good jw, i blocked them all out.
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Mysterious
Well....I know Jingle Bells which was apparently one of my grandfather's favorites that was always excused as being "wintery" instead of christmas-y. And I know Deck the Halls well enough to bluff through the parts I dont remember (liberal fa la la la la's seems to work!).
But on the other hand I do know the national anthem...in two languages. (And sang it in public too!)
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WHO IS RESPONSIBLE? Are you?
by Terry inmethinks i pushed the topic button a wee tad too early!
here is what i meant to say.
if nobody else is responsible, then, are you?
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Mysterious
Terry, that's better. I'd say that the individual becomes responsible when he or she KNOWS the facts and still follows blind leadership.
There is also that concept they liked to throw around. The one where children were protected by their parents until they knew enough to make a decision on their own. One has to wonder about those raised in the truth that are kept so shielded, if they are not somewhat less responsible that join the organization as adults without doing their research.
Of course that also raises the question of the witnesses preying on people at an opportunistic moment. You know the ones who read the obituaries, lurk around outdoor funerals, and visit hospitals regularly to talk to those that are seriously ill. Do we take into account the mindset of the convert in determining how responsible they are?
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Would the world be a better place without religion?
by micheal ini understand we all need guidance and some people need hope, even if it is not real.
but personally, i believe religion has caused so many hideous crimes against humanity that it is something we would all be better off without.. it really is too bad that religion has capitalized on humankind's need for a divine being to only abuse and control its fellow humans.. so, what do you think?
would we be better of without religion?.
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Mysterious
Some might question whether loving-kindness would still be manifested by mankind as a whole here on the earth, but I believe it's an innate human quality or characteristic and that it would be very telling to see how many people would continue manifesting a kind persona toward others....because without religion, it could be done just for the "fun of it" and not for any hidden heavenly agenda.....and perhaps it would be accomplished with more wisdom.
There are a lot of good people in this world who are not religious, even anti-religious. I'm sure kindness itself wouldnt fly out the window for the lack of religion. However one has to question the actions of a lot of religious based groups that do charity work primarily. If these people are doing it because they feel it is their duty to set a religious good example of because it will build up heavenly brownie points they may be more inclined to turn a blind eye in the absense of religious motivation unless the problem were right under their noses. (ie: not halfway across the world in a third world country)
I believe humans will always find something to fight about. If fanatic religious groups were not present there would be extremist groups of another sort present. There is always a reason to hate and to discriminate and the source of our blame would simply be forced to shift to a new source.
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Do JWs believe all wordly people die at armageddon?
by XQsThaiPoes ini was wondering a few things.
i am trying to avoid the complexe question fallacy so excuse me if this is worded strangely instead of just saying "do jws believe all wordly people die at armageddon?"..
1) did the watchtower change its teaching on the great tribulation and armageddon enought for you to call it a major change?.
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Mysterious
1) Did the watchtower change its teaching on the great tribulation and armageddon enought for you to call it a major change?
Well I'm not the one to talk to about doctrinal change. I'm sure blondie will be along with some research shortly.
2) What version of the teaching were you taught?
That those who hadnt had a chance to hear the message or who hadnt had the time to respond would be spared and given a chance in the "new world". Likewise those with a "good heart" who perhaps had not had enough time to make positive changes in their lives.
3) Do all JWs need to believe that in armageddon normal wordly people will all be killed or is it good enough to have only the cartoonishly evil demonic hoard wordly people die?
The organization has always been about demonizing worldly people, cartoonish or otherwise. They're lack of love for true worship, god's organization etc. blah blah. You would think their entire lives were full of debauchery instead of normal everyday events if you listened to the way the organization paints it. And of course any disenting views are highly frowned on.
4) If a person has non JW family and friends why would they insist on believing that all wordly people will die when their end game doctrine is not that stable considering all the revisions, rearranging, and toning down?
Because they do not think for themselves. If the organization tells them their family is going do die they will just work harder to make new converts. Most of the loyal dubbies dont realize that there is any doctrinal revision happening. The wash of "new light" has bleached out all their understanding of how they used to view things before. -
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stuck in!
by red so deep inwell, this is my first post here, and i'm kind of doing it in secret, cause i know if my parents knew of my "poisoning myself with apostates" they would not be happy at all.
anyways, my story is; i'm 17, i've been brought up "in the truth" my whole life, and now i'm starting to question the wt and christianity in general, and i have nobody to talk to about it.
i feel awkward about talking to my witness friends about it, cause i worry that if i speak out against the organazition and the wrong people (i.e; young ones around here that would never think of questioning the society) hear about it, it might result in my punishment (reproof or dfing).
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Mysterious
Welcome to the boards Andrew. I must say I empathize with being in such a difficult position. Last fall I was similarly trying to get out of as many meetings as I could. I even faked sick and wasted an entire evening in bed to get out of having to give a talk. And let me tell you hot weather under multiple layers of blankets without moving is not pleasant. I havent gone to a meeting in about eight months now and you can be sure I feel all the better for it. Luckily for me my father is not an active witness so I was able to leave while still living at home. That may not be the option for you. Just try to see your friends as much as you can, nonwitness especially. If they know you are going through a hard time they will be more understanding than your witness friends.
I definitely agree with you that voicing doubts to other witness kids is a bad idea unless you know they feel similarly. And even then you will both likely be relunctant to talk about it much. Nevertheless there are a lot of great people here and many great topics. I am sure you will get the discussions you desire and hopefully the strength to know there is hope after the organization.
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Jdubs and friendships...
by SwampThing ingood evening everyone,.
well, i?m back with another question, if you will be so kind as to indulge my curiosity.
since my last post, i have kept myself busy reading all of the interesting topics you guys discuss here.
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Mysterious
why would you be concerned with losing a friend who would drop you like a hot potato, ignoring your long history with them if you were to be DF?ed? That, to me, doesn?t seem like much of a friend to begin with. An acquaintance, maybe. But not a friend. Friends, in my book, are people who will support you when the chips are down, and who will come to your aid without question or condition.
Yes but a lot of JWs dont have true friends like that and are afraid to lose what little friendships they do have when exiting the organization.
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Would the world be a better place without religion?
by micheal ini understand we all need guidance and some people need hope, even if it is not real.
but personally, i believe religion has caused so many hideous crimes against humanity that it is something we would all be better off without.. it really is too bad that religion has capitalized on humankind's need for a divine being to only abuse and control its fellow humans.. so, what do you think?
would we be better of without religion?.
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Mysterious
I understand what you are saying mysterious, but wheather or not there is a god religion is governed by humans and whenever a human governs something so far-reaching as religion there will be corruption. History has shown that this has and will always be the case.
Then go back to a time when religion wasnt so "organized". Really who needs a entire world wide support network to be religious with someone telling you the fundamental beliefs to ascribe to. If it is such a universal truth for you (as one would hope one's beliefs would be) then you should be able to come to those conclusions on your own or with a few like minded friends.
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Would the world be a better place without religion?
by micheal ini understand we all need guidance and some people need hope, even if it is not real.
but personally, i believe religion has caused so many hideous crimes against humanity that it is something we would all be better off without.. it really is too bad that religion has capitalized on humankind's need for a divine being to only abuse and control its fellow humans.. so, what do you think?
would we be better of without religion?.
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Mysterious
It's not religion so much as what people do to it. Religion can make better people but religious differences can be the worst conflicts imaginable. If religious people would learn to leave well enough alone and allow everyone the latitude in belief that is their right then there would not be the same issues there are now. People would learn to respect and work with the differences in beliefs that others have and not use their own beliefs to harm others. Religion is like any tool, it has to be used responsibly and positively.
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Mysterious
Hehe I saw a show a while ago that was dealing with star trek objects from the original series that we have now. One of them was the communicators they had now with the modern flip top phones. I cant remember what the rest of that stuff was but there was quite a list it was amusing.