toreador

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Posts by toreador

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  51

  A question for bible scholars.....It's a REAL hard one!

  by gumby in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  where does the name "israel come from?

  (the answer is intresting if you know) .

  gumby

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  toreador

  Interesting Gumby.

  Yeah, also like Gumby said, what is your take on it leolaia?
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  12

  Monkey's and Atheists

  by IronGland in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thomas huxley

  ("darwin's bulldog") is said to have come up with the most famous defense of the atheist belief that life was created by chance, not god.

  in a debate at oxford, he is reported to have stated that if enough monkeys randomly pressed typewriter keys for a long enough time, sooner or later psalm 23 would emerge.. .

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  toreador

  I think probably something started life here on earth at one time since living things do not seem to come from nonliving things but who or what did it is beyond me.

  Tor
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  26

  How do you help them understand?

  by Sassy in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i have posted as each step of my exiting has brought new stresses into my life.

  you have all been awesome in your support.

  i know i still have a ways to go but many of the hardest steps have been undertaken... and i have an interview for a new job, so my working with a guy who is a jw, might be taken out of my environment so i can go somewhere that is not only closer to home (short commute) but also no one will know i was ever a jw.

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  toreador

  Sometimes it is still stressful but is improving overall.

  Thanks for asking,

  Toreador
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  26

  How do you help them understand?

  by Sassy in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i have posted as each step of my exiting has brought new stresses into my life.

  you have all been awesome in your support.

  i know i still have a ways to go but many of the hardest steps have been undertaken... and i have an interview for a new job, so my working with a guy who is a jw, might be taken out of my environment so i can go somewhere that is not only closer to home (short commute) but also no one will know i was ever a jw.

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  toreador

  We are going thru something very similar in our family. At times it can be so frustrating you want to pull your hair out. It is extremely tough for someone who has never been in a high control group to understand your feelings completely. Try to be patient with your BF and try to help him understand in nonconfrontational way what it has been like to have been in a high control group for so long; hopefully he will understand and be there for you.

  Tor
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  15

  The Passion of Brian

  by drahcir yarrum in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i haven't yet seen the movie the passion of christ but understand that it is a powerful movie for those who are believers.

  i haven't been a jw for many years but wondered what the organizations position is on the bros seeing this movie.

  does anyone have any insight on this?

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  toreador

  there was a thread on this a week or so ago where someone said how the WTS viewed it. They said not to go to it. There was a lot more detail in the thread though. You would have to do a search for it.
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  56

  More KM convention instruction gems! (KM Feb 04)

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  truthseeker brought news to us of the controlling instructions in the april km .

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/68733/1.ashx.

  just two months before (feb04) were instructions on how to make hotel and motel reservations and has these mind-numbing gems: (they're on page 8) .

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  toreador

  Tailgate parties in the convention parking lot! Now that would be a hoot! LOL
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  22

  Control damn it! April 2004 KM on How to Behave at the Conventions

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my god, this is worst than last years.

  i'm not writing the whole thing out, but here are some "convention reminders" for this years district convention.. "let us exhalt his name together" page 3. para 4. please bring a lunch rather than leave the convention site to obtain a meal during the noon break.

  this will allow all to enjoy upbuilding association and be present from the very start of the session.

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  toreador

  Whenever any new ones were at the KH when this same old crap was rehashed before every assembly it used to make me cringe in embarrassment because it made us look like retards that someone had to tell us how to behave like we were all little kids with no manners.

  Arrrrggggh.
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  52

  Wow..I'm Still Breathing!

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey, i'm home!.

  i came home from hospital earlier today.

  it was great to eat a fried breakfast again!.

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  toreador

  Good to hear you are ok and back home! Take it easy for a while though.
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  76

  E-Watchman Has Sent NGO Letters to Over 5000 U.S. Congregations!

  by Greenpalmtreestillmine in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  e-watchman has sent over 5000 letters to congregations in the u.s informing them of the ngo debacle and a similar one to 101 branches around the world.

  and according to his guestbook post he has signed his real name to the letters!

  great work and great news!

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  toreador

  I have to say that was a well written letter by E Watchman. How he considers himself one of the annointed of JWs though is beyond me.

  Tor
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  66

  Please!! Who is there to teach me the ways of Christ Jesus?

  by Celtic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please!!!!!!!!!!!!

  cos i'd really like to know more than anything else!!.

  please.. please.. please..

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  toreador

  These scriptures kind of helped me to understand God and how he feels about his children.... if this helps.

  2 Timothy 3:16

  16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness?.

  Keep the virgins but kill the rest. Numbers 31:17-18 ***

  17 And now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has had intercourse with man by lying with a male. 18 And preserve alive for yourselves all the little ones among the women who have not known the act of lying with a male

  Virgins amounted to 32,000 Numbers 31:35 ***

  35 As for human souls from the women who had not known the act of lying with a male, all the souls were thirty-two thousand

  If your son is rebellious bring him to older men of city and they must stone him.

  Deuteronomy 21:18-21 ***

  18 ?In case a man happens to have a son who is stubborn and rebellious, he not listening to the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and they have corrected him but he will not listen to them, 19 his father and his mother must also take hold of him and bring him out to the older men of his city and to the gate of his place, 20 and they must say to the older men of his city, ?This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he is not listening to our voice, being a glutton and a drunkard.? 21 Then all the men of his city must pelt him with stones, and he must die. So you must clear away what is bad from your midst, and all Israel will hear and indeed become afraid.

  If you see a ?beautiful virgin? from among your captives , let her mourn for a month because of the killing of her father and mother and then you can have relations with her and if you decide you don?t like her, let her go but you can?t sell her.

  Deuteronomy 21:10-14 ***

  10 ?In case you go out to the battle against your enemies and God your God has given them into your hand and you have carried them away captive; 11 and you have seen among the captives a woman beautiful in form, and you have got attached to her and taken her for your wife, 12 you must then bring her into the midst of your house. She must now shave her head and attend to her nails, 13 and remove the mantle of her captivity from off her and dwell in your house and weep for her father and her mother a whole lunar month; and after that you should have relations with her, and you must take possession of her as your bride, and she must become your wife. 14 And it must occur that if you have found no delight in her, you must then send her away, agreeably to her own soul; but you must by no means sell her for money. You must not deal tyrannically with her after you have humiliated her.

  Acct of David and Bathsheeba and God striking David?s baby 2 Samuel 12:11-18 ***

  11 This is what God has said, ?Here I am raising up against you calamity out of your own house; and I will take your wives under your own eyes and give them to your fellowman, and he will certainly lie down with your wives under the eyes of this sun. 12 Whereas you yourself acted in secret, I, for my part, shall do this thing in front of all Israel and in front of the sun.??

  13 David now said to Nathan: ?I have sinned against God.? At this Nathan said to David: ?God, in turn, does let your sin pass by. You will not die. 14 Notwithstanding this, because you have unquestionably treated God with disrespect by this thing, also the son himself, just born to you, will positively die.?

  15 Then Nathan went to his own house.

  And God proceeded to deal a blow to the child that the wife of U·ri´ah had borne to David so that it took sick. 16 And David began to seek the [true] God in behalf of the boy, and David went on a strict fast and came in and spent the night and lay down on the earth. 17 So the older men of his house stood up over him to raise him up from the earth, but he did not consent and did not take bread in company with them. 18 And it came about on the seventh day that the child gradually died

  In verse 11 above God had prophesied that that he would give David?s concubines to his fellow man to have sex with. It turns out that this person was David?s own son Absalom

  2 Samuel 16:22 ***

  22 Accordingly they pitched a tent for Ab´sa·lom upon the roof, and Ab´sa·lom began to have relations with the concubines of his father under the eyes of all Israel.

  If a man takes a wife and later finds out she was not a virgin she must be stoned. Deuteronomy 22:20-21 ***

  20 ?If, though, this thing has proved to be the truth, evidence of virginity was not found in the girl, 21 they must also bring the girl out to the entrance of her father?s house, and the men of her city must pelt her with stones, and she must die, because she has committed a disgraceful folly in Israel by committing prostitution in the house of her father. So you must clear away what is bad from your midst.

  If two men are fighting and a woman grabs the man not her husband by his privates her hand must be cut off.

  Deuteronomy 25:11-12 ***

  11 ?In case men struggle together with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the hand of the one striking him, and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of him by his privates, 12 you must then amputate her hand. Your eye must feel no sorrow.

  David kills 200 Philistines and brings their foreskins (skin from their penises) to Saul to buy his first wife (Saul's daughter Michal). Saul had only asked for 100 foreskins for his daughter, but David was feeling generous and brings him 200 foreskins and Saul sees that God must be with David from this act.

  1 Samuel 18:27-28 ***

  27 So David rose and he and his men went and struck down among the Phi·lis´tines two hundred men, and David came bringing their foreskins and giving them in full number to the king, to form a marriage alliance with the king. In turn Saul gave him Mi´chal his daughter as a wife. 28 And Saul got to see and know that God was with David

  What God makes people do

  Jeremiah 19:9 ***

  9 And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters; and they will eat each one the flesh of his fellowman, because of the tightness and because of the stress with which their enemies and those seeking for their soul will hem them in.??

  Ezekiel 5:10-11 ***

  10 ???Therefore fathers themselves will eat sons in the midst of you, and sons themselves will eat their fathers, and I will execute in you acts of judgment and scatter all the remainder of you to every wind.11 ??Therefore as I am alive,? is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord God

  Leviticus 26:28-29 ***

  28 I shall then have to walk in heated opposition to YOU, and I, yes, I, shall have to chastise YOU seven times for YOUR sins. 29 So YOU will have to eat the flesh of YOUR sons, and YOU will eat the flesh of YOUR daughters.

  Exodus 29: starting at about verse 15 to verse 46 is pretty interesting about how much blood is being spread around. I didn?t quote this one.

  Jer.32:27 "Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for the Lord?"

  Mt.19:26 , Mk.10:27 ,

  "With God all things are possible."

  The lord could not prevail in this case.

  Jg.1:19

  "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

  Exodus 21:15

  And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

  21:16

  And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

  21:17

  And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

  Hosea 9:14

  Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

  9:16

  Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

  Curses son because of fathers actions

  Genesis 9:22

  And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw HYPERLINK "notes.html" \l "9:20" \t "NOTES" the nakedness of his father , and told his two brethren without.

  9:23

  And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father ; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

  9:25

  And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

  2 Kings 5:27 The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever.

  Num.15:35

  "And the Lord said unto Moses, The man [who was found picking up sticks on the sabbath] shall be surely put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones."

  Kill both Man and animal.

  1 Sam.15:2-3

  "Thus saith the Lord of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare him not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

  Ex.20:13 , Dt.5:17

  "Thou shalt not kill."

  Ex.32:27

  "Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side ... and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor."

  Rom.16:1

  I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church.

  ("I commend you to our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church." -- The Revised Standard Version )

  1 Cor.14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

  1 Tim.2:11-12

  Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

  One of many scriptures , If deformed could not serve in church

  Deuteronomy 23:1

  He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

  23:2

  A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

  Exodus -- 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them

  If Moses hung the enemies heads up on poles, Gods anger could be turned aside.

  Numbers 25:4

  And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

  1. Deuteronomy

  2. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.-- 2:34

  3. And we utterly destroyed them, ... utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.-- 3:6

  4. And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.-- 7:2

  5. And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them.-- 7:16

  6. Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.-- 13:15

  7. And the man that ... will not hearken unto the priest ... that man shall die.-- 17:12

  8. And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women ... shalt thou take unto thyself.-- 20:13-14

  9. But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth.-- 20:16-17

  10. Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long.-- 28:32

  11. The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head.-- 28:35

  12. And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters.-- 28:53

  13. So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat.-- 28:55

  14. The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter, and toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them.-- 28:56-57

  15. I will heap mischiefs upon them. I will spend mine arrows upon them.-- 32:23

  16. They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.-- 32:24

  17. The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.-- 32:25

  18. If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh.-- 32:41-42

  19. Joshua

  20. And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.-- 6:21

  21. He that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath.-- 7:15

  22. The LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.-- 7:25

  23. So smote all the country ... he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.-- 10:40

  24. The LORD God of Israel fought for Israel.-- 10:42

  25. 1 Samuel

  26. And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.-- 6:19

  27. 1 Kings

  28. He smote all the house of Jeroboam; he left not to Jeroboam any that breathed, until he had destroyed him, according unto the saying of the LORD.-- 15:29

  29. He slew all the house of Baasha: he left him not one that pisseth against a wall ... according to the word of the LORD.-- 16:11-12

  30. They took the king's sons, and slew seventy persons, and put their heads in baskets, and sent him them to Jezreel. 2 Kings 10:7

  31. So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men.?1 Chronicles 21:14

  The blood of 142,000 sheep and cattle was spilled in the inauguration of the temple

  2 chronicles 7:4

  Then the king and all the people offered sacrifices before the Lord.

  7:5

  And king Solomon offered a sacrifice of twenty and two thousand oxen, and an hundred and twenty thousand sheep: so the king and all the people dedicated the house of God.

  Behold, with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods. And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out. 2 chronicles 21:14

  Isaiah 13:16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

  13:18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

  Isaiah 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers.

  1. Jeremiah

  2. They shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.-- 8:2-3

  3. For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the LORD.-- 8:17

  4. Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them.-- 11:11

  1. Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine.-- 11:22

  1. Deliver up their children to the famine, and pour out their blood by the force of the sword; and let their wives be bereaved of their children, and be widows; and let their men be put to death; let their young men be slain by the sword in battle.-- 18:21

  2. I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcasses will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.-- 19:7

  3. And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend.-- 19:9

  Even the beasts must be destroyed as well.

  4. And I will smite the inhabitants of this city, both man and beast: they shall die of a great pestilence.-- 21:6

  5. And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land.-- 24:10

  Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 23:34

  1. And her daughters which are in the field shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the LORD.-- 26:6

  2. For I will send into her pestilence, and blood into her streets ... and they shall know that I am the LORD.-- 28:23

  1. Hosea

  2. Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.-- 9:16

  3. Their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.-- 13:16

  birds and fishes as well

  1. Zephaniah

  2. I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea.-- 1:2-3

  3. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, ... and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.-- 1:17

  1. All the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.-- 3:8

  1. Zechariah

  2. I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.-- 11:9

  3. And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.-- 13:3

  4. Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.-- 14:12