Posts by Amazing

13

JUSTICE #6 - Stumbling the Least of These

by Amazing in

jw
friends

woe to those who stumble the least of these .

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone" .

[note: this is a sickening story, and goes to the heart of why many youth among jws end up leaving their religion.

Amazing

HI Esther:

You asked, "I did not know that masturbating was a disfellowshipping offence. It shouldn't be."

Normally, masturbation has not been a DF offense. I believe that the Aug. 74 Watchtower Questions from Readers even allowed for Elders to have a "temporary bout" with it, but then must conquer it so they can remain an Elder.

The event with the 14 year old boy took place in 1984. And they had not at that time modified the policy. What I believe was the catch that placed it into a DF issue for these Elders was two things: 1) The boy used pronography, and 2) he was with another unbaptized JW boy as they both masturbated together. Once it moved from the totally 'private' type of secret sin to one shared with another person, albeit, they did not touch each other that I know of, then this made it more serious in the Elder's minds.

You continued, "But even if he had done something worse, a 14 year old is not old enough to sign a legal contract, so according to worldly authorities, cannot be held to one. The WTS as ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to disfellowship a 14-year-old."

You are 100% correct! This is the most basic aspect of the issue. A minor, at least one under 18 years old, should only be dealt with by parents. The only excpetions might be where a minor commits a serious felony, such as murder, robbery, rape. Then the courts need to be involved. But when this happens, the whole world knows, child services gets involved, defense attorneys, psychologists, etc. The whole system is set up to deal with all aspects of the interests of the child and the victims.

But, for an act of masturbation, even one shared by two young boys, the authorities would never be involved. If, for example a teacher caught these boys at school, then the parents would be notified and encouraged to get the boys counseling. But that would be about it, as long as no crime was being committed. When I was a kid, if a teacher caught us doing something like that, say in the school bathroom, they would just ask us to do it at home, and chase us out of the restroom. That would have been it.

You noted, "The child was just doing what came naturally, anyway. It is not as if he deliberately flouted the WTS's inane laws. To put a child in the intolerable position of not being allowed to have any friends at all is wicked. No, it is downright evil."

I agree with you 100%. After I read the announcement DFing this boy, I stood back and wondered what we thought we were accomplishing. Although I was not on the JC, I felt bad even reading the announcement. I hoped at the time that they would reinstate him in a few months. When that did not happen, I spoke up, but was told that it was being handled. About the time I was commencing my exit plan from the organization 7 years later, I strongly urged the parents to move to another congregation and expose this sham. They agreed with me, but eventually decided to 'trust' Jehovah's Organization.

This is a serious tragedy, and one that I can never forget. It is among the many issues that helped me see that the Watch Tower religion is not only a sham, but a fraud, and a religion that needs to go away. It is a borderline criminal religion. - Amazing

28

Sat. Dist. Conv.--Cracking the whip!

by LostMyReligion in

jw
friends

i have put in my final day at this year's test of posterior endurance---saturday at the district convention, 2001. i took quite a few notes today, because some had specifically asked about saturday's program.

i hope all will be suitably edified by them.

do not just listen to bits and pieces of the program, but to the whole thing.

Amazing

HI LMR: Great notes. I have some matierial that states that JFRutherford never received a degree in law. He was a court clerk, and learned enough in the late 1800s to be able to sit through a 5 hour oral exam with other Bar attorneys. That is how he got his license to practice.

I am not belittling him for this, because it was common for men to get there law practice that way, that is a 5 hour oral exam. But, more commonly they did get a degree in law first. Rutherford never did, to my knowledge. So, this may be one of the Society's slightly embellished stories. - Amazing

6

Selecting Judicial Committees

by TMS in

jw
friends

several threads on this board have contained comments about elders with axes to grind "volunteering" to serve on judicial committees.. the society's intructions have always indicated that only the best qualified brothers should be used.

skill, years of service and familiarity with the type of problem at hand would be factors in the selection.. close friendship or indications of animosity might disqualify one if other qualified ones were available.. the elder body was entrusted to name the best trio of brothers for the particular situation.. .

in actual practice, it usually worked this way.

Amazing

Hi TMS: IN theory, what you said about the procedure is the way it should work, or at least was thought to work. The scenario you suggested as to Brother A learning the gossip, being assigned to investigate with Brother B, and then the Elders asking Brothe C to join in to form a JC is one way it has worked.

Other factors are that the experienced Elders will select a newer Elder as a thrid member to give him experience. He has to start somewhere is the philoisophy. [Although, at one time the WTS permitted experienced MS's to sit in as an 'observer' so he could learn from watching the Elders. This would be an MS who is seriously being considered for appointment to Elder. But that policy was never really followed.]

Availability is the main reason. If you have 5 Elders, and they each may already be on two or more JCs at any time. In the congregations I served it was not uncommon to have several JCs ongoing at the same time. So, if an Elder was less burdened, he might be asked to take on some JC activity.

Sometimes, Elder PO who ius chairing a couple of JCs will be planning a vacation or have a part in an Assembly, and will ask another Elder to fill in, and take over his spot on a JC.

In one JC where I was Chairman, I recused myself after several meetings because I became too emotionally distraught. I did not want to DF the brother who was in the 'hot' seat. And because I felt too emotional, I decided that my objectivity was clouded.

Another Elder who did not like the brother in the 'hot'; seat asked to relieve me, because he felt that his experience with the accused brother gave him 'certain; insight into the problem. He wanted the brother DF'd and it was made so eventually.

Often, some Elders are just burnt out with JCs and other things, including the normal pressures of life, and will ask if another Elder will help. And an Elder who has not has too much JC experience might feel compelled to volunteer.

I can never recall any time where we discussed who the best, most objective, most qualified and most experienced Elders were to take a specific JC assignment. Any mention of experience was always done according to how well the Elder felt he knew and understood the accused. And, this often meant that he had 'concerns', in other words had an ax to grind. But one thing that Elders learn real fast in the JW world is how to play politics and make their ax look like a finely tuned surgical knife meant to heal, when in fact as the velvet cover was removed, the precision knife turned into a spiritual Colt 45. - Amazing

1

Request to Amazing

by wasasister in

jw
friends

amazing, could you please send me your current e-mail address?

the aol addy i have for you is not active.

thanks.

Amazing

Hi Wasasister: I will reopen my email tomorrow. I blocked all email after I was hacked and spammed. Also, if I don't have it open when you email, you can send it to [email protected]. I look forward to your email. I am heading off to bed soon, so I will talk with you tomorrow. - Amazing

4

FARKEL - Please Read

by Amazing in

jw
friends

hi farkel: in my justice #6 i mention the topic of masturbation and how you posted on h20 a commentary based on the 1973 watchtower questions from readers about the topic.

it was one of the most humorous and truthful expose' of the iron tower's stupidity i have read.

i think it would be an excellent post for this forum.

Amazing

HI Farkel: I am not at my work PC, so unless I drop into the office tomorrow, I will have to wait until Monday. But, I will post it. I don't recall your Booger post, but I will check for it in my files. If not, then I will provide my own alternative with my attempt at humorizing the Nov 99 Kingdom Ministry regarding JWs and the Internet.

I think that your Masturbation Post will be an all time top post for JWD. I still laugh when I tell people about it. Even though I was mostly through the JW junk when you posted that one, it was a great help to me to see how absurd the WTS is. - Amazing

4

FARKEL - Please Read

by Amazing in

jw
friends

hi farkel: in my justice #6 i mention the topic of masturbation and how you posted on h20 a commentary based on the 1973 watchtower questions from readers about the topic.

it was one of the most humorous and truthful expose' of the iron tower's stupidity i have read.

i think it would be an excellent post for this forum.

Amazing

Hi Farkel: In my Justice #6 I mention the topic of masturbation and how you posted on H20 a commentary based on the 1973 Watchtower Questions from Readers about the topic. It was one of the most humorous and truthful expose' of the Iron Tower's stupidity I have read. I think it would be an excellent post for this forum. Let me know if you can epost it. If not, I have it saved and will repost it for you. Thanks. - Amazing

13

JUSTICE #6 - Stumbling the Least of These

by Amazing in

jw
friends

woe to those who stumble the least of these .

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone" .

[note: this is a sickening story, and goes to the heart of why many youth among jws end up leaving their religion.

Amazing

Hi Bigboi: You asked, "Amzing do you have any more experiences of this type of bias?"

Yes, tons.

I think that if the 14 year old boy had been caught alone masturbating using pornography, he might not have been DF'd, but still could have been because pron was involved. But, because he and his unbaptized JW friend were sharing the same magazines as they masturbated, then this seems to have made the issue more problematic in the eyes of the Elders.

Yet, these Elders seem to forget that boys at this age will do these things, even together, and it does not mean they are perverts, or molesters, or some other devient. They are learning and experimenting. I believe that parental intervention to guide and train in a calm and caring fashion is all that is needed.

The sad thing here is that these Elders moved away from common sense, and begin to legislate where it was not needed or desired. And if there was a problem beyond what boys normally do, then a trained tharapist in conjunction with the parents would be the best route to take. The worse thing these men did was to shame this boy through his most formative years.

I will add some new posts to my Justice Series on additional bias after I post number 13. - Amazing

8

To: Uncle Onion & Ros

by Amazing in

jw
friends

hi uncle & ros: buried deep down in tina's post uncle asked whether i was an atheist and ros noted that she thought i was a liberal christian.

i have been going through an evolution in my life, but i will try to give a good snapshot of where i am at now.

i may yet change one way or another:.

Amazing

Hi Uncle: I believe that Jesus Christ really existed. I believe that the historical backdrop during the first and second century is enough to confirm that he was a real person. Most modern Jews also accept that Jesus existed, but they place him in a category of being a local Rabbi who was on the fringe, or at least that is the impression I am given.

Jesus Christ was clearly ahead of his time, and promoted concepts that clearly give a lot of personal freedom, and mono-e-mono relationship with God. Jesus also taught much of what we would today attribute to common sense.

Whether he is a third person of a Triune Godhead, or a singular firstborn created angel, abbeit, the big daddy Angel in his own class, remains the problem for debaters to try and solve.

I believe that his death at a minimum illustrates that he was willing to stand the test of his own convictions and principles, which says a lot ofr the man Jesus Christ. If his death provides a means by which God forgives our sinful nature, then this is even more vital to us.

I still accept Jesus Christ as m savior, and believe in eternal salvation, not on my works, but upon his death. I believe it is soimething that a responsible creator should do for those who are sinful and imperfect through not fault of their own.

BUT, as you agreed with me, this still leaves a lot of unanswered questions, issues, theological contradictions, and confusion. But, I am not harmed by holding to faith in Christ, because I do so as an individual on my own, and I don't impose this on anyone else.

I think that these issues are worthy of debate, and as we debate will help us develop to a level where we are comfortable with what and who we are and where we stand in the cosmos.

Thanks again for your good points. - Amazing

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