Modern day religions like the JWs and Mormons are fixated on connecting themselves to the early Christians in some way, in order to establish their authority and divine commission as God's church or organization ... they want what Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, and Alexandria already have, but without the true historical development. They can never have it ... so they twist history to try and invent it ... but they come out losers as we have all witnessed.
Amazing
JoinedPosts by Amazing
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First Century Jehovah's Witnesses
by cameo-d inwhat proof does wt cite that the formation of jw movement began in "first century"?.
did the grassroots originate before jesus came on the scene?
or was it during the time of his ministry?
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Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus inout of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .
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St. Ann,
When I returned, I simply went to what they now call "Reconciliation" (Confession). I was baptized as a baby, and grew up in Catholic school, so RCIA was not necessary. Nothing had really changed since my last 'confession' decades earlier. The priest had been a priest since I was born ... he was utterly amazing and kind. He was very interested in my history and what brought me back to the Church.
The road back to Rome started with refreshing myself on early Christian history, reading all of the early Fathers like St. Ignatius of Antioch, up through St. Polycarp and St. Irenaus. I then studied the Orthodox, and discovered so much more, and it helped me understand Roman Catholicism much better ... though I had been taught and 'raised' by Dominicans (known for being the teaching Wing of the Church along with the Franciscans). We can PM on the Orthodox if you are ever interested. But the main thing is that I learned where the other Holy Sees are, and which Apostles started them, and how they all function the same as Rome ... but Rome was simply accepted all that time as the senior Church, the older brother, the First among Equals. I spent about two years in such a study ... oddly enough, it all began with wanting to know more about the Holy Spirit.
One day, Tom Cabeen (now a Catholic) told me he could see my Catholic roots showing in my writings and conversation, even though I was far from Rome. I was shocked, as I could not see how my style could expose my basic training. We talked as I completed my Holy Spirit project ... and before it was over, I talked to my local parish priest ... I had attended the Orthodox a few times, but could not take communion. So, right after my BRCI presentation, I went to Reconciliation, and then to Mass and received communion. It was awesome to be back where I started ... and I was very emotional about it during confession, which surprised me. Tom Cabeen was baptized later on that summer. He was interviewed on EWTN last year about this time. You can go back into the EWTN archives and get the interview.
I enjoyed reading your history as to how you got into the Church ... and I appreciate you being in the faith.
Yours in Christ, Pax Vobiscum
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Why Do So Many DF'd End In Some Sort Of Trouble?
by african GB Member inmost ex-jw's df/da that i know end up living a dangerous life.
some get into drugs, prostitution, gangsterism,etc.
as a result they prove the jw theory that says "whoever leaves jehovah's organisation won't make it" right.. it's difficult for me to say this, but it seems like jw's are partly right on this one.. why do most ex-dubs end up in a predicament of some sort?
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AfricanGB,
Most Ex-JW's DF/DA that I know end up living a dangerous life. ... Why do most ex-Dubs end up in a predicament of some sort? Are they psychologically affected by years of chains and abuse, and therefore end up looking to make up for lost time and enjoy/explore their freedom to the fullest?
When you say "most," you do so without the slightest evidence or credible supporting reference. Nothing proves any JW theory 'right.' When people of any sort are repressed for an extended period, problems are bound to happen. Jehovah's Witnesses are no different, and having the DF'd or DA'd label has little bearing on how a person behaves inside or outside the Watchtower organization. There are as many JWs who commit serious sins (break Watchtower rules) that do not get DF'd or DA'd.
It's difficult for me to say this, but it seems like JW's are partly right on this one.
No, the JWs are not partly right. There is no statistical data or supporting references, and that is why neither the Watchtower Society nor you are able cite such evidence. The Watchtower simply tells its members that the 'majority' of DF'd JWs are guilty of some serious sin (usually sexual immorality), and the JWs gobble it up ... and even ex-JWs carry forward these nonsense myths.
In the time I served as an Elder, and the 30-years of JC files I reviewed in my care (I have explained in other posts why I had to do this) I did not find a majority of DFings for serious sin. There was a large variety so-called Watchtower rule violations. Some were DF'd because they attended a religious function, or for no longer accepting Watchtower dogma, some for smoking, some for continuously repeated masturbation,I recall one for 'lacking' love, believe it or not. Yes, JWs do commit what a normal Christian would consider serious sin, like fornication, drugs, adultery, etc. But, hell, the JW ratio of those that do these things that remain in the organization is actually greater than those who are DF'd. At one time, in our congregation, about 35% of the JWs were on some kind of restriction for serious 'sin.' This is greater than the 1% of the JWs that were DF'd from our congregation each year. The DF label is merely due to an arbitrary system of judging someone's repentance. Young people will act out at times due to the restrictive life they lived as JWs. But the JWs inside the organization get into just as much trouble, if not more so, than those who are DF'd or DA'd.
The facts: Even my own presentation lacks evidentiary facts ... precisely because I do not have access to such facts, and can only speak from specific experience. I suggest that if you study behavioral psychology some, especially the effects of a repressed lifestyle, you may find all sorts of fascinating details which you can report back to JWN ... and then make some sensible application to the JW and ex-JW world.
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Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus inout of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .
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Minimus,
I've read literature against Catholicism and I agree that some of their beliefs are non biblical and/or opposed to the Bible.
What beliefs of the Catholic Church 'oppose' the Bible. Given that the Bible (NT) was given to us by the Church?
My understanding of transsubstantiation is that Catholics view it as the actual drinking and eating of Christ.
It becomes to us the body and blood of Christ. It is a Divine mystery ... and has been a Christian belief since the first Christians. Jesus said you must eat my flesh and drink my blood ... and he did not use symbolic language ... symbolism is a convenient Watchtower legalistic escape clause to resist the truth of Jesus teaching. The Jews who heard this walked away from Jesus, thinking he was speaking literally ... since Judaism relies greatly on symbolism and allegory, Jesus would have had to make it clear he was speaking literally in order to offend the Jews.
Priests and nuns look "spooky" to me. The Pope looks weird to me too, especially the present one.
Catholic and Orthodox tradition has preserved even the very dress and style from early Rom and Greece, when St. Peter and Paul founded the Roman Church, and St. Andrew counded the Church in what is now Constantinople. Both halves of the Church have acted to preserve everything for future Christian generations. Some of the WT drama clothing is taken from the same era ... and when I was at District Conventions, I would hearken back to Orthodoxy because of the costumes the JWs used were so strikingly. It is not meant to be "spooky" but to retain everything possible and change nothing, as they felt an obligation to pass on the faith in every aspect, and totally preserved.
Just like the Pope, "The Slave" is always right, even when both are obviously not.
The Pope makes mistakes and is not always right - and no self-respecting Catholic would ever say otherwise ... he is not 'infallible' as this is an abused notion by non-Catholics. The Pope can only be 'infallible' on matters of faith and morals that the Church has always taught, or was part of tradition. The Pope has only invoked 'infallibility' on two teachings in the history of the Church ... both dealing with the Blessed Virgin Mary. There is no comparison to the wicked GB overlords and the good Pope who does not rule, but merely exhorts.
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Speculation: Since I accept evolution as scientific fact, then I believe that Adam and Eve were fully evolved humanoid offspring whom God selected and gave souls, making them sentient self-aware beings. So, they should have had belly-buttons ... I hope so ... but, I don't know ... I was not there.
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Why should I believe the Bible?
by wobble ini don't ask for myself,but my son said last night that he sees no reason to take any notice of a book written by men over many centuries.. could the believers on here give me some ammunition to shoot across his bows to at least get him to consider the bible's merits?.
i am familiar with the arguments against he bible,and my son is familiar with the wt defense of the bible and is not convinced.. thanks in advance,.
love.
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I don't put faith in the Bible ... the Bible did not die for me. I put faith in Christ, of whom I was taught by my parents, Dominican Sisters, and the Catholic Church. The Bible is inspired and inspiring, but it is only a book. The Bible was not compiled until 400 years after Christ, and was not declared inspired until the 8th century by the Catholic Church. It is a relationship with God and Christ that counts ... not a book.
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I Just Did the Math!
by journey-on ini know a dear 'sister', 60 yrs.
old, who has been a faithful witness all her life.
if she put in just 10 hrs./mo.
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If God wants someone to heart 'truth' and follow Jesus ... he will lead that person to a Christian ... just as God brought the animals to Adam, and did not send Adam to knock on the caves and dwellings of the animals. Think about it.
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Would you clone your child?
by sammielee24 inthis is only part of the story..too long to copy..but it raises the question of cloning.
human to human cloning has been done but how do we feel about animal to human cloning?
are centaurs really a fairy tale or a possibility?
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I love my children as unique individuals ... I would not take a $million to clone them, and I would not pay a dime to have another.
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Could the Holy Spirit Lead in Opposition to the "Spirit-Directed" Organization?
by compound complex in.
of course, i realize that not all members of the board would have a belief-basis to answer the above.. for the sake of discussion, however, do you see examples - biblical [applicable in our day] or extra-biblical - wherein an individual intent on serving god in loyalty and truth could be directed by his spirit to act courageously against the society's enforced "conscience"?.
thanks.. coco .
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Yes.
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Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus inout of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .
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drwtson32:
As far as them having the "truth"? That's entirely subjective. Every Christian religion thinks they are following the bible the way they should, and accuse the other sects as being "corrupt."
Your comments are reasonable, except that the mainline Churches do not accuse all others as being "corrupt." The Catholic Church, for example, teaches that the Christian faith and truth are found among the many non-Catholic Churches. A few cult-like groups, like the JWs, Adventists, and others make such accusations. Most Churches are kind and reasonable. Catholics do not place as much emphasis on the Bible as they do history and tradition ... that is why they preserved the rituals they have (as do the Orthodox) for the last 2,000 years.
St Ann:
I did not realize you are Catholic ... well we have something in common. Were you a Catholic before being a JW, or is this something you found after leaving the JWs? I was raised Roman Catholic, and finally returned to the Church about 4 years ago.