heresy of the month (from a website).
don't you hate it when someone you know comes up with some new thing that you have never heard about?
you sit there in apparent ignorance as they pontificate about the proofs and merits of some idea so far beyond common knowledge that it can only be revealed by people of exceptional enlightenment such as they.
Clear it now, before it's burned into your screen!
I'm in serious trouble. I did thinkers math problem in my head and now "666" is burned into my MIND! Everything I look at has 666 superimposed over it. I've been holding my head upsidedown so the 666 looks like 999, but my neck is starting to get sore. HELP!!!
my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.
he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.
jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?
Hi Logical,
This is kinda confusing with two conversations going, so let me repost your comments and then my response.
Amicus:What I find amusing is the emphasis placed on the name "Jehovah". That name was invented in the 5th or 6th century. It wasn't used by the Israelites or the early Christians.
What is so amusing about the name we have come to know the True God by? YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, they all point to the ONE TRUE GOD. I can quote so many scriptures at you, saying He does have a name and wants it to be exhalted.
The fact is, He IS regognised by Jehovah. That is the name we have come to know him by, Jehovah identifies the TRUE GOD OF ISRAEL!Nobody knows how YHWH was pronounced. Maybe this was intentional on YHWH's part?
See above
Christians are supposed to focus on Christ. That's the new chain-of-command.
That is simply called "Creature Worship", "Idolatry", worshipping the creation and not the creator - something CONDEMNED in the Bible. Even Christ himself pointed out that Jehovah, his Father is greater than he is.
I'll try to clarify my statements. The comment about Jehovah was intended to be reactionary. I won’t debate that the God of the bible used different titles or names to describe or refer to himself. My point is that no one knows how YHWH is to be translated. The most accurate translation I have seen is Yaweh. So why substitute a name that was probably invented by a monk that lived 1500 years ago? If we use Jehovah to render YHWH, why not use church in place of congregation, cross instead of stake, or pastor rather than elder. Jesus, 1st century Christians, or the Jews probably never uttered the name “Jehovah”. What gives us the right to say that Jehovah is the Creator’s name when it obviously isn’t.
Your argument that “Jehovah is acceptable because it’s accepted” doesn’t apply here. God, Our Father, YHWH, Yaweh, Abba, are all more appropriate and also describe the God of the Bible. Why does a group of people claiming to be free of the influence of Christendom use a name for the Creator that was created by one of Christendom’s clergy? It strikes me as hypocritical and thus the observation in my initial post.
If Yaweh thought it important for us to use YHWH today, why didn’t he ensure we knew how to pronounce it? One of the thoughts I have been considering is that we don’t know how it is to be pronounced today because YHWH doesn’t want us to. He wants us to focus on Christ. We approach our Heavenly Father now through Christ, not directly.
When we start to understand Christ’s personality, we by default, come to know Our Heavenly Father. “No one comes to the Father except through me.” “I have made you known to them and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and I myself may be in them.”
How many of us read accounts in the OT and are confused about Yahweh’s personality? It was probably clearer to the Jews because of their familiarity with the Law. We are no longer under the Mosaic Law Covenant. Most of us read about Jesus and can focus on: Love for our fellowman and love for God. Perhaps this is by design. The OT was about Yahweh’s relationship with the Jews; the NT is about Jesus and Christianity. Jesus was very clear about the relationship between the three of us: man, Christ, and Our Father. We do not exhalt Our Fathers Name by saying it, but by living a lifestyle that brings glory to Him.
my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.
he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.
jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?
eyes_opened,
There are a lot of scriptures that could be used in this context. I think it would be a misapplication of scripture though. I don't think the WTBTS was ever approved of by Christ or the God of the Bible. So if you are never "in favor", you can't fall "out of favor".
What I find amusing is the emphasis placed on the name "Jehovah". That name was invented in the 5th or 6th century. It wasn't used by the Israelites or the early Christians. Nobody knows how YHWH was pronounced. Maybe this was intentional on YHWH's part? Christians are supposed to focus on Christ. That's the new chain-of-command.
the end of 6000 years is 1873. wt 7/15/1894 p.1675.
"in what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of god's rest day come to an end?
the year 1975.
RedHorseWoman,
Thanks for your honesty. I don't like using words like "spiritually weak or sick". I advoid those terms as they have no value to me any longer. They do, though, represent how some were viewed in the congregations and sometimes how whole congregations were viewed. It's a part of the history of the WTBTS, as is the 1975 failed prophecy.
Something that I haven't seen discussed is "How much money did the Society make from donations during that time period?"
I know of one family that donated most of their (considerable) wealth to the Brooklyn Boppers. If I personally know of one family, there has to be others.
the end of 6000 years is 1873. wt 7/15/1894 p.1675.
"in what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of god's rest day come to an end?
the year 1975.
When I first read this thread I chose not to comment and continued to read other topics. As I continued to read I found myself thinking about what it was like to be a witness in those days, it's not a subject I dwell on or often discuss. It's far different than today, and I find that sad. I enjoyed the enthusiasm and zeal, there was a vibrancy that I don't see in todays Kingdom Halls. This comment by Trevor is what made me start remembering the old days which I have fond memories of.
Those who suffered as a result of the build up to 1975 will tell you it was no joke. I too left school to pioneer at 15 and at 17 found myself in a bed-sit waiting for the end to come. It took some years to extract myself from under the spell of these false prophets the WT.
I do not read into that statement that Trevor does not accept personal responsibility for his actions.
I get so sick of this lack of personal responsibility, everything is always someone else's fault. It makes me gag.
Did I miss something? Has anyone here tried to absolve themselves of any personal responsibility? If I have given anyone the impression that my relationship with the WTBTS wasn't a partnership, I apologize. I was not forced to do anything by anyone. Was I misled? Yep. Do I like admitting that? Nope. Did the WTBTS intentionally try to mislead the flock? I think so. Have they tried to distance themselves from this? Absolutely. Do they rewrite their history? Whenever it suites them.
Trevor,
I think it is easier to understsnd the WTS when one realises that they are a political party.
Organized religion always ends up this way because power corrupts.The bigger the religion the bigger the corruption.
Edited by - amicus on 23 January 2001 15:18:8
the end of 6000 years is 1873. wt 7/15/1894 p.1675.
"in what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of god's rest day come to an end?
the year 1975.
I'm sorry this is disjointed. I went back to review another statement, saw these, and felt compelled to comment.
I didn't live my life on the basis of what they were saying and neither did most other Witnesses
I know of no one this applied to. As I have stated, the congregations I associated with were zealous, working their territory every two or three weeks and experienced rapid growth. We also had a lot of pioneers, MS's, and elders. That is a hypocritical attitude and demeans those who gave so freely to serve God.
I only read/heard about the so called "1975 Fiasco". From what I understood, some of the friends went on spending sprees with the assumption that they wouldn't have to pay their debts.
I would like to know where you read/heard this? I know of no one who did this. That statement is also demeaning. If it happened it was the exception and not the rule, done by ones who were spiritually weak, and not by those taking the lead.
Edited by - amicus on 23 January 2001 1:18:53
the end of 6000 years is 1873. wt 7/15/1894 p.1675.
"in what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of god's rest day come to an end?
the year 1975.
The early '70's were interesting times. I suppose one can't really understand the atmosphere that existed unless they were there.
I began studying at 18 and dropped out of college to pioneer. I did not know anyone in the org. who attended college. Why waste time in college when Armageddon was so close? College was also villified as being "bad association".
Many of the public talks, and all of the Service meetings stressed the need to preach, preach, preach. I knew of no one who made long term plans for the future (at least that they admitted to). The congregations I attended at that time were also considered very "strong spiritually". Perhaps there was a different attitude in other areas, but I never heard of it.
Maybe you were one of those that just did not take the WT seriuosly about the 1975 fiasco
Anyone that fit this description was considered spiritually sick. (Xandit, I do not mean that as a personal attack, just commentary on that statement.) Everyone thought the end was just a few years away, but we did shy away from discussing dates. I know of people who sold homes, decided not to have children, took early retirement, dropped out of school, sold valuable possessions, all to serve Jehovah whole heartedly in the few remaining years left. They did this with the blessing and encouragement of the WTBTS.
It was disingenuous for the WTBTS to not accept responsibility for this behaviour. Anyone who claims that the gov. body wasn't responsible either wasn't there or has been conditioned over time to "forget" what really happened. When I see them try to distance themselves from their history I just naturally look closer at it. Why or what are they trying to hide?
Edited by - amicus on 23 January 2001 0:34:19
i have been having discussion with my sister (relative), who is an active witness, about writing a letter of disassociation.
the reason being is that i have not attended the meetings in over a year and it's been 4 years since i have went out in the jw ministry.. i going to try to sum this topic up.
my sister think that i should not da myself because i have not done any immoral act in her thinking.
RedHorseWoman
We men of the cloth are quite aware of your pagan religion.
Do you think it's possible to gambol about in the moonlight without being noticed?
We "watchers" see more than you know;
The scantily clad women, the testosterone charged men.
Licentious, seductive behaviour of such magnitude is not easily concealed!
Some of us study your women, and others study your men.
The fertility rites of your adherents are very well known to us.
I have but one question for you, Goddess.
Do you need another Priest?
Father Amical ( resume' available upon request)
this song and band are a favourite .
fake plastic trees.
her green plastic watering can.
Path,
I 've never heard any Radiohead, I'll download something from Napster and check it out. Here's one of my favourite lyrics. Everytime I hear them I think they mean something else. I like that because it means they never bore me.
waiting,
So that means you're on your own kid. I won't even begin to try to explain what David Byrne is talking about.
SEEN AND NOT SEEN
He would see faces in movies, on T.V.,
in magazines, and in books...He
thought that some of these faces
might be just right for him...And
through the years, by keeping an
ideal facial structure fixed in his
mind...Or somewhere in the back
of his mind...That he might, by
force of will, cause his face to
approach those of his ideal...The
change would be very subtle...
it might take ten years or so...
Gradually his face would change its'
shape...A more hooked nose...
Wider thinner lips...Beady
eyes...A larger forehead.
He imagined that this was an ability he
shared with most other people...
They had also moulded their faces
according to some ideal...Maybe
they imagined that their personality
would be forced to change to fit the
new appearance that bears
no relationship to them...They
may have picked an ideal
appearance based on some childish
whim or momentary impulse...
Some may have gotten half-way
there, and then changed their
minds.
He wonders if he too might have made
a similar mistake. -David Byrne (Talking Heads)
whassup guys.
i've spent most of my web time over the last 2 years at another site full of ex-jdubs...i'd say about 50 people post there on occasion...many of that number regularly.. what struck me from the beginning, as i got to know the people posting there was...how many were now atheists...non-believers in god...the bible...pretty much anything they once held sacred as jw's!.
i dare say...90 some % do not consider themselves christian now!.
Joel,
I just spent a week visiting the Valley in November. Both my brothers have lived in S.D., so I've logged time there too.
Ride that wave, bro.
P.S. It's hard to find good tie dye since the Dead stopped touring.
