Posts by jw-verite

12

When "all" is not "everyone" or "everything."

by Wonderment in

we keep seeing posters bringing col. 1.16 and john 1.3 up as proof that christ is excluded from the creative acts.

the proof they submit is that the words "all things [gk., pánta]" appear in these texts.

however, they are missing this important element from the discussion: the word "all" is rarely used in greek, and even in our everyday language to mean literally "everyone" or "everything" under the sky.

jw-verite

Thank you but I think John is pretty absolute when he writes :

"Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." (Jn 1:3)

I think this verse clearly excludes Jesus from any form of creation, don't you ?

60

Rec'd a letter from my Dad - need some advice...

by Fadeaway3pointer in

fader here - last meeting was in autumn 2005. lurker on this site and others.

not one to get all controversial.. typical situation, pretty much a born in and left the church at age 38 and never looked back.. i'm 53 now, parents getting older - late 70s but very active, dad is still an elder.. parents, in laws, brother and brother-in-law still uber active jws.. my family (wife and 2 adult children) out since 2005.. we have stayed close to our parents - we have treaded religion lightly and have had a pretty good relationship and have kept our personal lives and beliefs/opinions separated from them.

this was intentional - as we love them and do not want anything to cause shunning since they are getting older and want to be there for them and we respect their beliefs.. got this letter today.

jw-verite

I would like to point out though that you don't have to agree to not respond. That's their rule, not yours, and basically condemning you and then asking you not to respond as if somehow they were the victim is cowardly. I would absolutely respond in any way I wanted. Knowing full well, of course, that they won't listen so I wouldn't try to save them, but I'd be kind while firmly showing them how cruel and messed up what they're doing is and how monstrous shunning is. I would put the blame firmly back on them.
I don't think silence is good. That's exactly what they want. Jehovah's Witnesses want you to feel shame and slink away. Why? So they don't have to face reality. I'd make them see what they're doing. In fact, that's something that woke me up. And since I've been shunned I have walked right up to family I've seen while out and said hi. It makes them shun me to my face, something that is difficult for them, and I want them to feel that. Why should they be awful and have it easy? Easy is often synonymous with enabling and I won't give tacit approval to that behavior.

That's exactly what I did and it worked perfectly.

When I DA'd my parents sent me an email looking like the OP. I chose not to accept their shunning and I wrote a letter back to them explaining it and telling them, among other things, that I still loved them and that my decision had nothing to do with them. I joined the Awake magazine, in which I highlited the famous phrase "no one should have to choose between religion and family".

I let a few weeks pass, then I started to text them again, phone them and visit them from time to time. There was no reply at the beginning and the welcome was very cold the first few months but they never rejected me when I visited them. I persevered and now, 5 years later, we have a good relationship. I even invited them before Christmas, with the illumited Christmas tree in my house, and everything was fine !

PS. Excuse my English but I'm French :)

69

284000 baptized in 2017

by jw-verite in

seen in the 03/2018 watchtower study :.

"during the 2017 service year, more than 284,000 “rightly disposed” individuals symbolized their dedication to jehovah by water baptism.".

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-march-2018/baptism-requirement-for-christians/.

jw-verite

Seen in The 03/2018 Watchtower study :

"During the 2017 service year, more than 284,000 “rightly disposed” individuals symbolized their dedication to Jehovah by water baptism."

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-march-2018/baptism-requirement-for-christians/

It's 20.000 more than last year

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/2017-yearbook/jehovahs-witnesses-service-report-2016/

So still no slowing down yet :-(

26

Last of the big conventions?

by NikL in

jw
friends

had lunch with some friends during today's waste of time convention.

they spoke of the rumor floating around that the jws will move away from these big regional conventions and have them at assembly halls and tie them in to kingdom halls.. they seemed to believe it was a pretty reliable source.. i think it would be too good to be true but who knows?.

anyone else heard this rumor?.

jw-verite

@stuckinarut2

I confirm, same thing in France, Regional Conventions are now split and take place in assembly halls.

19

The Watchtower Society’s 607 BCE Foundation Exposed

by Doug Mason in

the governing body and its watchtower society claims that in 1919 it was appointed by jehovah god and jesus christ to represent all of their earthly kingdom interests, to be their unique voice and sole representative towards all people on earth.

the watchtower’s authority lives or dies with that claim..

the society’s critical date of 1919 is calculated from the dates of events in the 6th century bce.

jw-verite

Thank you Doug,

This document seems well written. Would you agree if i translate it in french and post it on my website ?

Thanks

Regards

Thomas

48

Circuit Overseer Guidelines (tg-E) October 2015

by wifibandit in

circuit overseer guidelines (tg-e) october 2015. http://bit.ly/1utgizt.

jw-verite

Did anyone sent this document to the M. Steward of the ARC ? I think he would be very interested in reading it ^^

59

Ex JW's - Which Christian denomination are you with now and why?

by Truthexplorer in

this is a question for ex jw's who have joined another christian faith group.

the purpose of my question iis to find out which christian faith group you chose after leaving watchtower and what convinced you to travel this new spiritual path you are on.

i am interested to know because i personally would like to find a genuine faith group where i can feel true christian liberty as i initially thought i had with the witnesses.

jw-verite

Hello Truthexplorer,

Since I left JW.org I joined an evangelical Baptist church in France. After reading all the New Testament in a few days I decided to go visit the churches around my home. This one was the first I visited and I immediately felt that I was in the right place. They don't judge you, they are not dogmatic and being protestant they actually love exegesis. Moreover I find them really open-minded and very close to what I imagine of the first christians doctrines and practices.

They don't say they are the only people of God or they are "true christians" but they simply see themselves like christians before any other denomination.

Good luck to you !

14

Watchtower Web Domains

by Petraglyph in

jw
friends

i did some reverse domain lookups to see what web domains were linked to watchtower.

i did reverse lookups on the hostmaster address, building address, and phone number.

i've sorted and deduplicated the results.. bethelres.org.

jw-verite

hehe they won't have jw-verite.org ("verite" = "truth" in french)

My website is on first page of Google France when searching "jw.org". Very effective !

59

John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2

by Wonderment in

continued from part 1 (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5097191899136000/john-1-1-colossians-1-16-all-other-things):.

the nw translation and some of its unique renderings, like john 1.1- "a god," and colossians 1.16 - "all other things," have been consistently at the top of the most debated topics here in this forum and elsewhere from the beginning.

the anger felt by detractors of the nwt rendering of john 1.1 (a god) has diminished considerably if compared to the furious debates surrounding the verse that raged on during the 1950 thru 1970s.

jw-verite

And am I supposed to accept based on your reasoning that "the firstborn from among the dead" meant Jesus was the first one to be dead ? No of course ! The first one to be resurrected ? Neither....

The verse explains itself :

And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

The point is not to be the first one chronologically but to be the "preeminent", to have the "first place" (greek proteuo)

59

John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2

by Wonderment in

continued from part 1 (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5097191899136000/john-1-1-colossians-1-16-all-other-things):.

the nw translation and some of its unique renderings, like john 1.1- "a god," and colossians 1.16 - "all other things," have been consistently at the top of the most debated topics here in this forum and elsewhere from the beginning.

the anger felt by detractors of the nwt rendering of john 1.1 (a god) has diminished considerably if compared to the furious debates surrounding the verse that raged on during the 1950 thru 1970s.

jw-verite

@Wonderment thank you for your reply
jw-verite: The problem with adding "other" in Colossians is that it contradicts all other scriptures saying that ALL things where created by Jesus. So Jesus could not create himself could he? Cf. John 1:2; 1:10; 1 Co 8:6; Heb 1:2 In all these verses there is no "other". If everything was created by Jesus then Jesus was not created. As simple as that...

First,thank you for your input. It is appreciated.
The Scriptures that you mentioned (Cf. John 1:2; 1:10; 1 Co 8:6; Heb 1:2) do not literally say that Jesus is "the Source" of creation. They indicate that Jesus was "the mediator" of creation. Notice those Scriptures carefully make use of the Greek prepositions "dia" ("through him") instead of "ex" ("out of" him) when referencing Jesus' role in creation. Is this significant?
Newman & Nida, two scholars (Trinitarians) who worked closely with the American Bible Society, observe:
“The Greek phrase through him indicates that the Word was the agent in creation, but at the same time the context clearly implies that God is the ultimate source of creation …Similar expressions are found in Paul's writings and in the Letter to the Hebrews … The Greek text indicates clearly that the Word was the instrument or agency employed by God in the creation.” (A Translator's Handbook on the Gospel of John, Newman & Nida, p. 10.)
Jesus serving the role of "mediatorship" in the process of creation is not biblically depicted as offensive. (1 Tim. 2.5, Christ: "one mediator between God and men") On the contrary, Scripture states that Jesus is "the firstborn of all creation"; "the beginning of the creation of God." (Col. 1.15; Rev.3.14) Hence, "all" living creatures (excluding God) in the universe are commanded to "bow down" before Christ. (1 Cor. 15.27; Hebrews 1.6) These Scriptures rather than contradicting the explained view in the article, they support it. If Jesus as "mediator" is someone other than "God and men," why would "God" then not be "theSource of creation" instead of Jesus? The Scriptures do make a difference between God and Christ: "Christ is seated at the right hand of God." (Col. 3.1) Why is "God" always, and not Christ, at the center of it all?

I agree with you but the fact that Jesus is Mediator does not prove that He has been created. Did God need to create His own Word ? I don't think so. His Word is intimately linked to Him, in Him.

Look at Genesis 1, how did God create all things ? "God said...", "God said...", "God said..." so this is the way He created all things, by his own Word !

Psalms 33:6 : "By the word of Jehovah the heavens were made"

Psalms 33:9 : "For he spoke, and it came to be"

Relate this with John 1 and Colossians 1 and you can understand what I mean.

So I think that the Word of God belongs to him from all eternity. It is part of Him. It didn't need to be created. Note that we can use the same reasoning with the "wisdom" of Proverbs 8.

Concerning the "first born of all creation", the greek word "arche" does not necessarily imply a creation but is related to the position of superiority or "leadership" of Jesus over the creation.

Verse 18 tends to confirm this by saying : "And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." (NIV)

jw-verite: In all these verses there is no "other". If everything was created by Jesus then Jesus was not created. As simple as that...
This statement could suggest that God is "powerless" to employ a dear one close to him in the process of creation, if he so wishes. Isn't he almighty? God can imbue anyone he wishes with lofty powers. As noted in the article, the "everything" does not require biblically speaking, that Jesus himself was excluded from being created. Christ is "the beginning ofthe creation of God." Not the ""beginner." (Rev. 3.14) Christ is ‘of creation.’ Even Jesus said that ‘God created the first human pair.’ (Matt. 19.4) He could say that because he acknowledged "God" is the source of it all. In fact, Jesus own existence was due to God. In John 6.57, he states: "I live because of the Father." An "eternal" creator would never issue those words. Would he?

This is pure speculation. The Word of God lives because of God that seems logical but as said before this does not imply that God needed to create his own Word.

(excuse my english but i'm French )