Posts by rockhound

14

the begining of the end

by whatawaste in

i would like to ask for some help if that is ok, first ill exsplain my situation.

im 19, male, and for the last 1-2 months have been to no meetings at all, due to all this stuff with the un and many other things.

i was on the phone the other day to one of my close (well i thought so) friends, and we were talking, you see he is from another town and had no idea of me not attending meetings.

rockhound

If you type the united nations and the watchtower in your search engine, you will get what you need.

ROCKHOUND

8

untitled

by rockhound in

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rockhound

I just noticed that when I posted A.K. Grayson's translation, the dates and months did not all show up. I will see if I can get it posted the way it shows on his site.

10. when on 8 Abu [15 August 605] he died; in the month of Ululu Nebuchadnezzar returned to Babylon

11. and on 1 Ululu [7 September] he sat on the royal throne in Babylon.

12. In the accession year Nebuchadnezzar went back again to the Hatti-land and until the month of Shabatu [February 604 ]

13. marched unopposed through the Hatti-land; in the month of Shabatu he took the heavy tribute of the Hatti-territory to Babylon.

14. In the month of Nisannu [April 604 ] he took the hands of Bêl and the son of Bêl and celebrated the Akitu festival.

15. In the first year of Nebuchadnezzar [604/603 ] in the month of Simanu [June 604] he mustered his army

16. and went to the Hatti-territory, he marched about unopposed in the Hatti-territory until the month of Kislîmu [December 604 ].

17. All the kings of the Hatti-land came before him and he received their heavy tribute.

ROCKHOUND

8

untitled

by rockhound in

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rockhound

Leolaia

Thank you for your help. I was at a loss as to what was needed to fix this.

ROCKHOUND

8

untitled

by rockhound in

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rockhound

Sorry about this one friends. I tried twice to post my material and when I do, it goes all over the place. Anyone have any suggestion?

8

I'm going to get you "My Pretty"

by rockhound in

when i read the article "the watchtower's secret manual for elders" by jason barker ,

i realized how many times i personally have seen these directives in the "pay attention " book applied.

i have outlined a eleven step process to show just how easy it is to be

"The Watchtower's Secret Manual for Elders" by Jason Barker , I realized how many times I personally have seen these directives in the "Pay Attention " book applied. I have outlined a eleven step process to show just how easy it is to be set up and discarded if you break ranks and go your own way.

Note: If you don't have your copy of the "Pay Attention" book, you can easily download one by typing in your search engine box "PAY ATTENTION TO YOURSELVES AND TO ALL THE FLOCK" and you should find one in just seconds.

Also examined at length in Pay Attention... is the sin of apostasy. The Watchtower defines apostasy as "action taken against true worship of Jehovah or his established order

among his dedicated people" (Pay Attention..., p. 94, emphasis mine). This definition is significant: apostasy involves promoting religious teachings in opposition to the Watchtower and articulating any opinion that is critical of any action or position taken by the Society. Let us examine how the Society defines these two subcategories of apostasy.

I will just consider category two in this post.

The second subcategory,

disrupting "[Jehovah's] established order among his dedicated people," is the most potent and controversial weapon in the Watchtower's disciplinary arsenal. Reinforcing its position that the accrual and retention of power is a divine mandate, the Society tolerates no "deliberate action disrupting the unity of the congregation or undermining the confidence of the brothers in Jehovah's arrangement" (Pay Attention..., p. 95).

I have seen this method of getting rid of undesireables used over and over again. Here is how it works,

1. You finally decide to fade from the congregation, so you stop commenting, back off from field service, and start missing meetings.

2. You are soon marked as weak, and the local gossip mill (usually the sisters in the midweek service) are the ones who kick this process into high gear.

3. That famous "Brotherly Love" takes a nose dive, because it's based on performance, and you aren't performing, in fact you aren't doing anything at all.

4. The gossip mill now makes you a real topic in the car groups during those boring hours out in service. The Elders finally decide they should stop by and see you. ( The real purpose is to shake the bushes a little and see what you are up to)

5. The gossip mill soon finds out (Thru the Elders wifes) that the Elders have paid you a visit and didn't learn anything. You must be up to something, ( Marriage problems, something immoral, visiting those apostate sights on the internet, etc.) Gossip mill has a field day with these latest new developments.

6. You have now become " disruptive to the congregation's established order", Elders now visit you for a second time, to shake the bushes a little harder. They want to know if there is any truth to all the rumors.

7. You finally tell them, in confidence, that you have doubts about the organization, and the control they have on every thing you do. You feel boxed in, and don't like it, (or something similar). Their whole manner now changes to a defensive posture. You are definitely an " Independent Thinker". The Elders rush home and tell their wives,( they say they don't, but we all know they do) and they in turn pass this on to the sisters in the service groups. Isn't it wonderful, when these sisters have an inside connection to the pipeline.

8.The Elders are sure now that the unity of the congregation is threatened by all this "disruptive gossip

" that you are the center of.( All the while, you may not even know any of this is going on.)

9. A committee is formed to bring peace and harmony back again to the congregation. Your independent thinking may lead to apostacy. All this gossip is tearing apart the harmony and unity of the God's loving brotherhood. You tell the Elders that you haven't talked to anyone in the congregation about how you feel, the only ones that you talked about it to was the Elders . The Elders tell you that it doesn't matter how the gossip started, it is disruptive and now they" are going to have to deal with it."

10. The next thing you know, you are disfellowshipped, and labeled an apostate

. The gossip mill has even more juicy gossip to spread through out the circuit and the Elders have once again saved the loving brotherhood from those sneaky apostates.

11. When it's all said and done, you're left wondering "What the heck had just happened"? What did I do wrong? Your reputation is in ruins, your family and friends shun you, and nobody dares question the Elders decision or actions, for fear that they may be next. All very neat and tidy.

I have observed this same process used on Elders who fell out of favor with the circuit overseerer for one reason or another.

1. Circuit Overseerer brought in various outside Elders to supposedly "help out" the Elder body that he wanted removed

.

2. The new Elders now gave special needs talks based on being loyal to Jehovah's organization on the issue of disfellowshipping.

More talks like these followed. It became obvious that there was friction between the Elders. The gossip mill worked overtime wondering what was going on with the elder body. The congregation became devided into two camps. Half for the new elders, and half for the local elders. Nobody had any idea what was going on.

3. These new Elders now notified the local Elder body, that they had been stripped of all priveliges by order of the Circuit Overseer, no reason was given as to why they were removed.

4. One of the Elders, that was replaced, was a "Mole"

planted by the circuit overseer to spy on the replaced elders to find out what the local Elders were going to do, and then report what plans they were making. When the circuit overseer came, the "Mole" was given his privileges back. the rest of the Elders were not.

5. The whole congregation was in a state of "disruption" by the time the circuit overseer got back for his visit. Now he could come in and be "the hero" , and bring peace and unity back again to the congregation,and clean up the problem , with no one the wiser that he ( the circuit overseer ) had been the one to start the whole problem in the first place. This neat and tidy deception backfired on the circuit overseer when a number of the replaced elders wrote the society and caused a fuss.

6. Two Elder bodies in two congregations were victims of this tactic, which eventually led to an investigation of the circuit overseer and a huge controversary in the whole circuit. Of course nothing was done to clean up this whole mess, and the circuit overseer moved on to the next assignment, leaving a trail of ruined lives as a calling card.

7. I can only imagine how many times this tactic is used, and how many lives have been ruined. Page 95 and page 97 in the "Pay Attention" book gives the basic grounds for this evil and distructive tactic. All this process of course is unknown by the average witness, so when it happens to him, he doesn't know what hit him. Sleep with one eye open all you JW lurkers on this site, because you could be next on the "gossip mills" menu!!!

Being actually guilty of any wrong doing has nothing to do with this neat little process, because its all about "Control" and whether you are supporting the congregation. The above techniques are used against anyone who may talk about why they are no longer wanting to associate with the congregation.

The Watchtower has previously stated that the primary characteristic in any apostate is the desire for "independent thinking," a trait every dedicated Witness is required to eradicate in humble subjection to "the faithful and discreet slave" in Brooklyn (Watchtower, November 1, 1987, pp. 19-20). Questioning or criticizing any teaching by the Society or one of its representatives constitutes "independent thinking" (Watchtower, January 15, 1983, p. 27). The Society reinforces its ban on any critical thinking by stating that individuals may be disfellowshipped for any action that "may involve or lead to apostasy" (Pay Attention..., p. 95, emphasis mine); i.e., a Witness may be disfellowshipped for apostasy even if that person has not rebelled against Watchtower teachings! This is certainly a position of which the Society desires its critics to remain in ignorance.

Most threatening of all sins to the Society is apostasy, which can "contaminate the congregation like gangrene" (p. 103). As pointed out in the preceding section, a person who questions any action or teaching of the Watchtower's authority figures is immediately silenced.

The need for enforced unity is so serious within Watchtower walls that the body of elders in a congregation must appear united on every decision, even if a minority believe the majority has made an unbiblical decision (Pay Attention..., p. 67). This united front is necessary to deceive the congregation into cooperating and believing that "all the elders base their decisions on God's Word" (p. 67).

ROCKHOUND

31

Any PUBLICATION say that heavens doors were closed in 1935 ???

by run dont walk in

this seems to be jw belief, and only because rutherford said so in a talk, are there any publications that actually say that heavens doors were closed in 1935 ???

and any kind of references ???.

with the annoited class (pre 1935) getting smaller and smaller, i think in about 50 years the watchtower will have 144,000 replacements, how will they rectify this goof ???.

rockhound

In Russell's time and up until 1920's it was taught that there were two classes that were going to heaven. The 144,000 and a secondary heavenly class that didn't quite measure up to the faithfulness of the first class. It was taught that this secondary heavenly class was to be the "Great Crowd" in heaven, but would not be in a position of rulership. Russell taught that others who were not Bible Students would live through Armageddon and live on earth in a wonderful paradise.

The phrase "Millions now living will never die" was introduced in 1918 and was the carrot to indicate that paradise was to be due back to earth in 1925. Much of mankind would benefit. They would be the Millions now living that would never die. The faithful men of old were to be resurrected in 1925, and Jesus would directly teach these millions of non Bible Students and give them an opportunity to decide for themselves if they wanted to live forever.

After Rutherford's 1925 prophecy came unraveled Rutherford revised his teaching to a much narrower view, that only Jehovahs Witness will be saved.

Then in 1935 a very, very "Big" change took place. Now there was only one group (144,000) that was to go to heaven, and the not quite so faithful secondary heavenly class had heaven's pearly gates officially shut in their faces, and this secondary class now became the "Great Multitude" or "Other Sheep" or "Great Crowd" as we now know them. All those "Millions now living" of non Bible Students or non Jehovahs Witnesses (after the year 1931) were now out in the cold unless they became a Jehovahs Witness prior to the battle of Armageddon. The Two class hope was born.

Most Witnesses today do not realize the huge change of doctrine that took place in 1935. To see more on the "Great Crowd" and what happened in 1995 please follow this thread.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/92882/1.ashx ROCKHOUND

2

"A Text without a Context, is a Pretext"

by rockhound in

an old saying that must be drilled into the brain of every christian is "a text, without a context, is a pretext" reading the context, context, context, is a must do for all, in order to find out who?, what?, when?, where?, and why?.

we all learned these basis rules in english class, back in our school years.. the watchtower society has endlessly used scriptural quotes from 1 john, 2 john, and 3 john about the "antichrist" and applied these text to those who question the teachings of the society, and even though their faith in jehovah god and his son christ jesus was then, and is still, as strong as ever.

never the less, on went the lable "apostate" and friendships, and family were torn apart, and in many cases terminated.. who were the ones labled "antichirst"?

rockhound

An old saying that must be drilled into the brain of every Christian is "A Text, without a Context, is a Pretext" Reading the Context, Context, Context, is a must do for all, in order to find out Who?, What?, When?, Where?, and Why?. We all learned these basis rules in English class, back in our school years.

The Watchtower society has endlessly used scriptural quotes from 1 John, 2 John, and 3 John about the "Antichrist" and applied these text to those who question the teachings of the society, and even though their faith in Jehovah God and his son Christ Jesus was then, and is still, as strong as ever. Never the less, on went the lable "Apostate" and friendships, and family were torn apart, and in many cases terminated.

Who were the ones labled "Antichirst"? My NIV Study Bible, p.1946, provided the answer under the subject of "Gnosticism". They commented that Gnosticism was one of the most dangerous heresies of the first two centuries of the church. ( then a list of 5 of their teachings was given.)

Number 3 on the list: Christ's true humanity was denied in two ways:(1) Some said that Christ only seemed to have a body, a view called Docetism, from the Greek dokeo ("to seem"), and (2) others said that the divine Christ joined the man Jesus at baptism and left him before he died, a view called Cerinthianism, after its most prominent spokesman, Cerinthus. This view is the background of much of 1 John (see 1:1; 2:22; 4:2-3 and notes).

It concludes saying: The Gnosticism addressed in the NT was an early form of the heresy, not the intricately developed system of the second and third centuries. In addition to that seen in Colossians and in John's letters, acquaintance with early Gnosticism is reflected in 1, 2 Timothy, Titus, and 2 Peter and perhaps 1 Corintians.

The Watchtower society has clearly identified the early Gnostic influence in John's day. Please note following:

si pp. 256-257 Bible Book Number 62-1 John

4 John writes to protect his "beloved ones," his "young children," against the wrong teachings of the "many antichrists" that have gone out from among them and that are trying to seduce them away from the truth. (2:7, 18) These apostate antichrists may have been influenced by Greek philosophy, including early Gnosticism, whose adherents claimed special knowledge of a mystical sort from God. Taking a firm stand against apostasy, John deals extensively with three themes: sin, love, and the antichrist. His statements on sin, and in support of Jesus’ sacrifice for sins, indicate that these antichrists were self-righteously were claiming that they without sin and had no need of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. Their self-centered "knowledge" had made them selfish and loveless, a condition that John exposes as he continually emphasizes true Christian love. Moreover, John is apparently combating their false doctrine as he expounds that Jesus is the Christ, that he had a prehuman existence, and that he came in the flesh as the Son of God to provide salvation for believing men. (1:7-10; 2:1, 2; 4:16-21; 2:22; 1:1, 2; 4:2, 3, 14, 15) John brands these false teachers plainly as "antichrists," and he gives a number of ways in which the children of God and the children of the Devil can be recognized.—2:18, 22; 4:3.

w83 4/1 pp. 17-18 An Apostle's Stand Against Apostasy

Who were those antichrists? And how were they trying to deceive their fellow believers? John minces no words in exposing the antichrist apostates. He attacks them on three scores: (1) denying that Christ came in the flesh, (2) denying that Christ was the Son of God and (3) denying that they themselves were sinners.

Did

Christ Come in the Flesh?

But you might ask, ‘How could some believers deny that Jesus had come in the flesh?’ Evidently by the end of the first century some Christians had been affected by Greek philosophy, including early Gnosticism. These apostates held the view that all material things were evil, including the fleshly body. Thus, to the apostate antichrists, Jesus had not come in evil flesh but, rather, as a spirit. John clearly shows that he is no party to such theological reasonings that denied the efficacy of Christ’s ransom sacrifice. Thus he writes of "Jesus Christ, a righteous one" who was "a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s."—1 John 2:1, 2.

Later, with a simple and categorical definition, John clarifies the issue even further, saying: "Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God, but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God."—1 John 4:2, 3.

It is quite evident from the above quotes, that the society acknowledges who these apostate antichrists were, and what they were teaching and how John attacked them. Do we as Christians, have the scriptural right to play fast and lose with the Bible and pull a text completely out of its context and add meanings to it that fit our own personal or organizational agenda ? If this liberty is extended to the "Faithful Slave", then why not to us? I could add my version, you could add yours, and so on. When a text is pulled out of its surrounding context, a red flag should immediately go up and the Christian should look for a Pretext that is just around the next turn. Just what is a Pretext anyway? My Dictionary gives the primary meaning to be 1.that which is put forward to conceal a true purpose or objective: The leaders used the insults as a pretext to declare war. This is not Rocket Science friends, the Society is clearly misusing scripture to silence all who question. Many are our former brothers that have been victims of the grand Pretext used by the society when they have been vocal about getting an answer to "Who"?, "What"?, "When"?, "Where"?, and most of all "WHY"?

ROCKHOUND

11

Is the "Good News" really about 1914?

by rockhound in

"the good news" that jehovahs witnesses preach from door to door, world wide, has a definite theme that is different than "the good news" preached by the churches of christendom.

"let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel done by the religious systems of christendom during all the centuries with that done by jehovah's witnesses since the end of world war i in 1918. they are not one and the same kind.

that of jehovah's witnesses is really "gospel" or "good news," as of god's heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his son jesus christ at the end of the gentile times in 1914.

rockhound

"The Good News" that Jehovahs Witnesses preach from door to door, world wide, has a definite theme that is different than "The Good News" preached by the churches of christendom.

"Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah's Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah's Witnesses is really "gospel" or "good news," as of God's heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914." (Watchtower, May 1, 1981, p. 17)

1914

Research on the history of interpretations of Bible prophecy reveals that the Edward Bishop Elliott (1793-1875), incumbent of St. Mark's Church in Brighton, England was most probably the first one to mention the date 1914

in his treatise "Hours with the Apocalypse" first published in 1844. Elliott was one of the best known and most learned millenarians of his time.

Where in the history of man can mention of the year 1914 be found prior to Edward Bishop Elliott in 1844?

2,520 years

Research shows that John Aquila Brown in his book The Even-Tide

(London,1823) for the first time explained the "seven times" of Daniel 4 to mean 2,520 years.

James Hatley Frere seems to the first to write on the 2,520 years in 1813, but he never held the times of the Gentiles ( or the "seven times") to be a period of 2,520 years.

Where in the history of man can mention of 2,520 years in relation to Bible prophecy be found prior to James Hatley Frere in 1813?

If in fact, the "Good News" that Chirstians are to preach today, is about 1914, which is arrived at by the use of the figure 2,520 years, and neither 1914 or 2,520 years were used by anybody until the 1800's, then what was the "Good News" up to the 1800's that was preached by the Faithful Slave for all the centuries since 33 C.E.?

Why the change from what was preached as "Good News" by the apostles, to a "Gospel" about the date 1914? Wouldn't Gal.1:8,9 apply here?

8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed

ROCKHOUND

10

Will the Real "Great Crowd" Please Stand Up!!!

by rockhound in

in doing some research on the "great crowd" or "great multitude", i found some interesting watchtower articles that brought to the fore a very thought provoking question for all jehovahs witneses.

please follow the paper trail.. the watchtower of may 15,1995,p.20

18 in 1935 a bright flash of light revealed that the great crowd mentioned at revelation 7:9-17 was not a secondary heavenly class.

rockhound

In doing some research on the "Great Crowd" or "Great Multitude", I found some interesting Watchtower articles that brought to the fore a very thought provoking question for all Jehovahs Witneses. Please follow the paper trail.

The Watchtower of May 15,1995,p.20

18 In 1935 a bright flash of light revealed that the great crowd mentioned at Revelation 7:9-17 was not a secondary heavenly class. It had been thought that the ones mentioned in those verses were some of the anointed who had not been fully faithful and so were standing before the throne instead of sitting on thrones reigning as kings and priests with Jesus Christ. But there simply is no such thing as being partially faithful. One is either faithful or unfaithful. So it was seen that this prophecy referred to the numberless great crowd from all nations who are now being gathered and whose hopes are earthly. They are "the sheep" of Matthew 25:31-46 and the "other sheep" of John 10:16.

Please note: Watchtower identifies the "Great Crowd" the SAME as the "the sheep" of Matthew 25:31-46, and the "other sheep" of John 10:16

To sum up, the

"Great Crowd"="the sheep"="other sheep" (ALL THE SAME GROUP)

The Watchtower of Feb.15, 1995,p.8 enlightens us still further

2 Despite the latest advances of medical science, death still rules as king even today. While this is no surprise, some may have been somewhat disappointed when they finally came face-to-face with this longtime enemy. Why? Well, back in the 1920’s, the Watch Tower Society proclaimed the message "Millions now living will never die." Who would these millions be? The "sheep" spoken of in Jesus’ remarks about the sheep and the goats. (Matthew 25:31-46) These sheeplike ones were prophesied to appear during the time of the end, and their hope would be everlasting life on a paradise earth. As time went by, God’s people gained a better understanding of the position of these "sheep" in Jehovah’s purposes. It was realized that these obedient ones were to be distinguished from the stubborn "goats," and after the destruction of the latter ones, the sheep would inherit the earthly realm of the Kingdom that had been prepared for them.

Please note: the "Millions now living will never die" are the SAME "sheep" spoken of at Matthew 25:31-46

To sum up, the

"Great Crowd"or "Great Multitude"="the sheep"="other sheep"="Millions now living will never die" (ALL THE SAME GROUP)

The Watchtower 1985, March 1,p.14 adds to this list:

8 However, would Jehovah "shine forth" only in behalf of the anointed ones of the ‘little flock of Kingdom heirs’? (Luke 12:32) No, for the years 1931 through 1938 proved to be a grand period of further enlightenment, as The Watch Tower began to focus clearly on another group. The study article in its issue of September 1, 1931, was entitled "MAN WITH THE WRITER’S INKHORN," this being based on Ezekiel 9:1-11. After identifying the ‘writer’ as the anointed remnant, The Watch Tower made this comment:

9 "The commandment is given to put a ‘mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh, and that cry, for all the abominations that be done in the midst’ of Christendom. . . . The Lord tells of a class of persons whom he will ‘deliver in a time of trouble and keep alive and bless upon the earth.’ (Ps. 41:1, 2) This must be the class of persons that are often described as ‘the millions now living that will never die’." Today, it is thrilling actually to see millions of these being marked for preservation, as they put on the true Christian personality, in a dedicated relationship to Jehovah through Christ Jesus.—Genesis 22:15-18; Zephaniah 2:1-3; Ephesians 4:24.

Please note: The "millions being marked for preservation" are the SAME as the "Millions now living that will never die"

To sum up:

the "Great Crowd"or "Great Multitude"="the sheep"="other sheep"="Millions now living will never die"="millions being marked for preservation" (ALL THE SAME GROUP )

The Revelation,It's Grand Climax at Hand book p.120 par.4

4 Some years later, in 1931, Vindication, Book One, discussed Ezekiel chapter 9, identifying those persons marked on the forehead for preservation at the world’s end as the sheep of the above parable. Vindication, Book Three, released in 1932, described the upright heart attitude of the non-Israelite man Jehonadab, who joined Israel’s anointed King Jehu in his chariot and went along to see Jehu’s zeal in executing false religionists. (2 Kings 10:15-17) The book commented: "Jehonadab represented or foreshadowed that class of people now on the earth during the time that the Jehu work [of declaring Jehovah’s judgments] is in progress who are of good will, are out of harmony with Satan’s organization, who take their stand on the side of righteousness, and are the ones whom the Lord will preserve during the time of Armageddon, take them through that trouble, and give them everlasting life on the earth. These constitute the ‘sheep’ class." In 1934 The Watchtower made it clear that these Christians with earthly hopes should make a dedication to Jehovah and be baptized. The light regarding this earthly class was shining ever brighter.—Proverbs 4:18.

Please note: the "Jehonadab" are the SAME as the "sheep"

To sum up: the "Great Crowd"or "Great Multitude"= "the sheep"="other sheep"="Millions now living will never die"="Millions being marked for preservation"="Jehonadabs" (ALL THE SAME GROUP )

The Watchtower of March 1,1985 p.14 Rutherford pretty well summed it all up:

12 These flashes of prophetic light prepared the ground for the historic discourse on "The Great Multitude," given May 31, 1935, by the president of the Watch Tower Society, J. F. Rutherford, at the Washington, D.C., convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses. What a revelation of divine truth that was! Presented at that time was conclusive proof identifying the "great crowd" of Revelation 7:9 with the Lord’s "other sheep" of John 10:16, with the Jehonadab class, with those marked in the forehead for survival, with the millions now living who will never die, and with "the sheep" that are separated from "the goats" and will inherit everlasting life in the earthly realm of God’s Kingdom. All of this was covered in The Watchtower, August 1 and 15, 1935.

(ALL THESE CLASSES ARE THE SAME GROUP WITH DIFFERENT NAMES)

As you can see from the following, the Society thought they had it right:

Watchtower 1986,May 15,p.14

17 Thus, in 1923 Jesus’ great prophecy about the sheep and the goats was properly understood, and it was discerned that the whole world was under judgment. (Matthew 25:31-46)

Watchtower 1938,Feb 1,p.35

"The Lord revealed to his people the meaning of the parable of the sheep and the goats, showing how the 'sheep' only would be spared by Jehovah when his wrath is expressed at Armageddon. All this information came not from or by man, but by the Lord God..."

Then along came the Watchtower of 1995, Oct 15,p.18 par.22-26 and completely devastated all of the above, along with all the rest of the interpretations on this subject for the pryer 60 years.

22 Does this parable apply when Jesus sat down in kingly power in 1914, as we have long understood? Well, Matthew 25:34 does speak of him as King, so the parable logically finds application since Jesus became King in 1914. But what judging did he do soon thereafter? It was not a judging of "all the nations." Rather, he turned his attention to those claiming to make up "the house of God." (1 Peter 4:17) In line with Malachi 3:1-3, Jesus, as Jehovah’s messenger, judicially inspected the anointed Christians remaining on earth. It was also time for judicial sentence on Christendom, who falsely claimed to be "the house of God." (Revelation 17:1, 2; 18:4-8) Yet nothing indicates that at that time, or for that matter since, Jesus sat to judge people of all the nations finally as sheep or goats.

23 If we analyze Jesus’ activity in the parable, we observe him finally judging all the nations. The parable does not show that such judging would continue over an extended period of many years, as if every person dying during these past decades were judged worthy of everlasting death or everlasting life. It seems that the majority who have died in recent decades have gone to mankind’s common grave. (Revelation 6:8; 20:13) The parable, though, depicts the time when Jesus judges the people of "all the nations" who are then alive and facing the execution of his judicial sentence.

24 In other words, the

parable points to the future when the Son of man will come in his glory. He will sit down to judge people then living. His judgment will be based on what they have manifested themselves to be. At that time "the distinction between a righteous one and a wicked one" will have been clearly established. (Malachi 3:18) The actual pronouncing and executing of judgment will be carried out in a limited time. Jesus will render just decisions based on what has become evident about individuals.—See also 2 Corinthians 5:10.

25 This means, then, that Jesus’ ‘sitting down on his glorious throne’ for judgment, mentioned at Matthew 25:31, applies to the future point when this powerful King will sit down to pronounce and execute judgment on the nations. Yes, the judgment scene that involves Jesus at Matthew 25:31-33, 46 is comparable to the scene in Daniel chapter 7, where the reigning King, the Ancient of Days, sat down to carry out his role as Judge.

26 Understanding the parable of the sheep and the goats in this way indicates that the rendering of judgment on the sheep and the goats is future. It will take place after "the tribulation" mentioned at Matthew 24:29, 30 breaks out and the Son of man ‘arrives in his glory.’ (Compare Mark 13:24-26.) Then, with the entire wicked system at its end, Jesus will hold court and render and execute judgment.—John 5:30; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

27 This clarifies our understanding of the timing of Jesus’ parable, which shows when the sheep and the goats will be judged. But how does it affect us who are zealously preaching the Kingdom good news? (Matthew 24:14) Does it make our work less significant, or does it bring a greater weight of responsibility? Let us see in the next article how we are affected.

This issue of the Watchtower in 1995 completely pulled the foundation out from under their house of interpretations about the sheep, Great Crowd, Millions never dying,Millions being marked in the forehead, Jehonadab class, and every other class that is tied to the "sheep" that have NOT been identified or separated in the past, present, but according to this article in 1995 will be a future event.

The Big Question is, If the Great Crowd,Great Multitude, sheep, other sheep, Millions that never die, Millions who are marked, Jehonadabs, are (ALL DIFFERENT NAMES FOR THE SAME GROUP) as shown above, and the SHEEP have NOT been indentified, or separated,or judged, then How can any Jehovah's Witness say they have a scriptural foundation to be a part of any of the many groups mentioned that are the SAME thing as the SHEEP? Think about it!!!

ROCKHOUND