Posts by zack

20

Why all the Testing?

by zack in

the bible is full of stories about god needing to test people, either as individuals or as a group, the most notorious being the testing.

of adam and eve.. why does an omnipotent and omniscient being need to "test" his creation?

are we like products in a factory?

zack

The Bible is full of stories about God needing to test people, either as individuals or as a group, the most notorious being the testing

of Adam and Eve.

Why does an omnipotent and omniscient being need to "test" his creation? Are we like products in a factory? Is this part of a quality assurance program?

Why take the Hebrews out of Egypt only to scourge them three days later?

Why have twelve spies report to the people about the promised land and then punish the people because they sided with the report of 10 of their brethren versus

two of their brethren?

And of course I can go on. Maybe I am just coming to see what a crock of unbeleivable shit it all is.

11

The Final Fallacy: If Witnesses Ruled the World

by metatron in

jw
friends

after all the disproofs and debunking of the watchtower society are done and its status as the "truth" is destroyed, we are left with one final.

argument supposedly in their favor: if the whole world was nothing but jehovah's witnesses, it would be a peaceful paradise.

this is the last argument that held me in the "truth" as an elder - inspite of all the lies and corruption i encountered in "jehovah's.

zack

Excellent observation. I remember being on the porch of a friend's home some two summer's ago. I was with two other elders and we were talking about the politics of the BOE.

I remember that I became quite animated at what I perceived to be a general lack of Christianity in the working of the body. I said to my two friends that night that if the new system was going to be run by men like our PO and some of the others, then I would rather not be there.

Looking back, the times that I sensed the most egregious failures of Christianity were at events sponsored by the branch. They sucked all the love, joy, and fellowship out of everything they did only to be replaced by a cold and impersonal efficiency. When they were in charge it was all business --- and not so efficient.

Glad I'm out of there.

Great thread--- as usual.

77

What's the big deal with Jesus' "sacrifice"?

by bluesapphire in

what was the big deal with that dam tree to begin with!

zack

I never had a BIble student who understood the ransom doctrine. I would challenge any "Christian" to really explain it, not just parrot the assertions of their teachers, but really explain it to an idiot like me. I used to parrot it as well and thought I understood it. The parts that didn't make sense I simply dealt with by telling myself that "God will clear it up some day."

Even from a Biblical standpoint, the doctrine itself stands on contradictions. We inherit sin from Adam and must therefore pay the wages for HIS sin. Yet, YHWH says the sins of the fathers shall not be visited on the sons. We need salvation from something we didn't cause, yet the NT tells us we each carry our own load and stand accountable to God as INDIVIDUALS for what WE do and not for something someone ELSE does.

And as has been stated, perhaps irreverently in the view of some, but the ransom is OWED to God and PAID to GOD and yet is PROVIDED BY GOD. If you picture it as a financial transaction then GOD takes money from his left pocket and puts it into his right pocket. It all starts and ends with Him. So, why is it neccessary at all? Why is the death of a living being always necessary for the life of another?

I don't think the answers that religions give us are satisfactory and that is why the questions are asked. As for what the Bible says, the ransom doctrine was outlined by Paul, a former Pharisee who had already been conditioned to the idea of blood sacrifice, and accepted and built on the premise of inherited sin.

22

The necessity of failed prophetic dates

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

it is very tempting to ridicule the jw habit of setting dates for the end of the world/ armageddon/ great tribulation.

but prophecy has been a significant part of the judaeo-christian panorama.

there has also been a great deal of tension between "prophets" and "preists".. .

zack

What KW13 said!

22

Attn: JW's and Bible Students - Lets Discuss John 1:1

by lovelylil in

this verse came up on the thread about whether or not jesus is michael the archangel.

i wanted to discuss it in further detail on a new thread because i think raised on the other thread was an important point about how jw's and bs translate john 1:1.

1in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god.. as we know the nwt adds an "a" to say "and the word was (a) god, when there is no support for this in the ancient greek manuscripts.

zack

JW's do not deny Jesus to be divine. They simply do not believe he and the Father are two beings in one, but rather two distinct and seperate beings and qualitatively different in time, knowledge, and power.

I think the whole argument is really a distraction. If seen from the point of view of a Christian, the point of one's life is to follow Christ who himself set the pattern to follow the Father. The DOING of the Father's will is what's important and Christ made plain what that will was.

That being said, JW's are so hung up on this issue that they deny Christ the honor and position that THE FATHER has bestowed on him. So in their being so legalistic about their worship of the Father, they end up not fully honoring the Son and thus fail in that very most important thing--- the doing of the Father's will.

39

Court sentences rape victim

by Bumble Bee in

report: court sentences rape victimfri nov 16, 12:27 am et .

a saudi court sentenced a woman who had been gang raped to six months in jail and 200 lashes more than doubling her initial penalty for being in the car of a man who was not a relative, a newspaper reported thursday.. the decision by the qatif general court came in a case that had sparked rare debate about the kingdom's justice system when it surfaced more than a year ago.. in its decision wednesday, the court also roughly doubled prison sentences for the seven men convicted of raping the 19-year-old woman, the arab news reported on its english-language web site.. according to arab news, the court said the woman's punishment was increased because of "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media.".

she had initially been sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicting her of violating saudi's rigid laws on segregation of the sexes.. under saudi arabia's interpretation of islamic sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than their male relatives.. the initial sentences for the men convicted of the gang rape ranged from 10 months to five years in prison.