Posts by zack

23

Poll:What is the "average" age of people's baptism in the org?

by megsmomma in

jw
friends

i was 14....and that seems pretty common for those that were in it young....... .

how in the world is a 14 year old ready to commit themselves to anything life altering?.

The "Creation of Eve" and the interval affecting 1975

by Terry in

the watchtower, may 1, 1975, said of a watchtower bible school of gilead graduation held on march 2, 1975: (italics added).

another speaker, f. w. franz, the society's vice- president, forcefully impressed on the audience the urgency of the christian preaching work.

he stressed that, according to dependable bible chronology, 6,000 years of human history will end this coming september according to the lunar calendar.

Of course you're right. The average JW is NOT supposed to know. But I gave my first student talk in 1970 and I KNOW what they taught. The Insight Book published in 1988 changed the 7000 year Creative Day to thousands of years. But many people never got the memo. Incidentally, the Insight Book says very strighforwardly that the Bible gives no length to the Creative Days. This after decades of assertions to the contrary.

The other wrinkle is that in order to differentiate themselve from other fundies, they say that "the Beginning"-- that time period of Genesis chapter 1--- is seperate frrom the Creative Days. In other words, the Universe and the Earth already existed-- and they concede for billions of years--- prior to God getting the Earth ready for human habitation and beginning his work of Creation. The seven creative days are seperate and apart from the Creation of the Universe and the Earth itself. This would mean, according to their teaching which they have never refuted, that the dinosaurs are at most only 13,000 or so years old since it was in that "DAY" , the sixth, that God created the land animals, of which man was presumably the last, because God then rested.

A sister today commented at the WT Study that we are deep into the time of the end because Adam surely has named all the animals by now. I guess she didn't get the memo.

71

A Letter to the Governing Body

by truthsetsonefree in

(km 6/03 p. 1 par.

9 building for an eternal future, w87 2/1 p. 15 par.

(km 11/88 p. 4 par.

zack

I feel for you, brother. I have the same frustrations.

If sending your letter off makes you feel better, go for it. The GB don't care, though. Remember, these men were elders, CO's ,DO's. They saw eveything you did. They have been THE SYSTEM for most of their lives. The Service Dept. will read it and file it after first sending it to every cong. they can think of in order to get a local BOE to talk to you. But you already know that, don't you?

I agree with you about the wages. The WTS criticizes other churches for having paid clergy. Well, I have met some of these people in my career and have found the overwhelming majority of them to be servants of their flocks. They tend the sick, counsel the depressed, pray for families, perform weddings, arrange funerals, officiate at baptisms, preach a new sermon on Sundays, arrange for activities for youths, visit prisons and homeless shelters..... Why are they criticized? Save for the odd preacher on TV most of these men minister to humble and simple congregations and make no more money than a highschool principal or fire chief. Most have Masters and Doctorate degress with minors in phsycology. If JW's had paid clergy I think the cong. would be better served. The hyprocrisy, of course, is that they do have paid clergy---- all the GB, CO's, DO's, etc... They don't admit it, but that's what they are.

All the best to you.

Zack-----

3

Creation Book - An Odd Statement - Part 2

by Amazing in

jw
friends

once in a while, i run across statements the society has made, and i sit back and marvel at the implications.

here is one that when you read it, it can flow by easily ... but if your eyes stop long enough to allow a second thought ... well ... you can judge for yourself:.

creator book, page 7: "actually, the trend to dismiss religion or god has roots in philosophies of men who stressed pure reason.".

zack

I have long beleived the Writing Department exists divided. I have seen different factions at work depending on the book or article.

Also, it is evidence that the Org. Masters themselves possess no overarching vision for their pronouncements... How can you rule the Universe by committee when they can't agree on what they really beleive?

34

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 1-21-07 WT Study (Day Near)

by blondie in

will try again, getting error message.

says posted 6 hours 3 minutes ago which is not true, less than ten minutes ago.

zack

I just got in from my Sunday meeting. On one of the paragraphs a brother commented how Jehovah was the GREAT EXTERMINATOR.

A sister said that "we" had expectations of the end in 1975 but Adam had to name all the animals! (She sill doesn't get the Org's abandonment of that doctrine!) Her comment was in response to the paragraph that blames the members for the expectations of their leaders.

And to top it all off, on the review questions, the conductor said that "people would not take heed because they didn't want to be inconvenienced." Then he said, "Well, they'll be dead. That it'll be pretty inconvenient." Laughter. Guffaws. I was horrified.

Song and prayer. People talked, not about the lesson or about the comments, or about ANYTHING serious, but instead talked of the Colts and the Saints and Bears and the Patriots-- the important things.

They had just finished discussing the annihilation of the human race save except the most rabid JW, and they were talking about FOOTBALL! I do not think anyone takes this stuff seriously.

Zack------

26

Creator Book - Periodic Table - Part 1

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i believe in god ... but not because of any watchtower teaching.

it is actually fun to look back and see how they applied very poor logic and nonsense to try and prove their point.

zack

Hello Jim. Thanks for your post and for your story. Yours was one that I read first after the light bulb went off.

I take your point about the PT. To me, the WTS is always defending, defending, defending. All their writing is an argument in defense of something rather than a contsruct FOR something. I would read, even as a child, their literature and walk away feeling like I had had an argument. The writers can present nothing out of conviction for what things ARE, instead they frame their arguments against what they ARE NOT.

Again,

Thanks

8

Would they bother preaching

by Bobhere in

jw
friends

if your average publisher believed that the big a was definately not going to come in their lifetime would they bother preaching?

given that they believe that when you die you go to sleep and wake up in a paradise earth with a clean slate what would be the point of preaching.

those that have spent there lives as jw's and died what have they gained.

zack

Gary,

I have thought and actually said the same thing many times. People think I'm being silly. After they have a chance to think about it they stop laughing.

28

The "Creation of Eve" and the interval affecting 1975

by Terry in

the watchtower, may 1, 1975, said of a watchtower bible school of gilead graduation held on march 2, 1975: (italics added).

another speaker, f. w. franz, the society's vice- president, forcefully impressed on the audience the urgency of the christian preaching work.

he stressed that, according to dependable bible chronology, 6,000 years of human history will end this coming september according to the lunar calendar.

zack

A District Overseer by the last name of Samuelson, who now teaches at Gilead, did not know himself what the "teaching" was about the length of a

Creative day. He had to ask the writing department because he was scheduled to give a class on it at Gilead. Which

got me to thinking, If this Brother, a former DO, doesn"t KNOW the current "teaching", how is the average JW supposed

to know? And what is up with the idea of "the current teaching?" This was before my awakening at pioneer school.

Zack---------------

11

Were you aware of any "Bad Blood" amongst JW's at your hall?

by JH in

come on now, is it really posssible that everyone at the hall gets along well together?

maybe during ideal conditions... were you aware of any friction or bad blood amongst members in your congregation?.

in my case, there was a brother thati didn't want to be around.

zack

Bad blood was absolutely forbidden at my congregation. Bad blood fractions were a conscience matter.

40

Are JW kids allowed to be kids?

by tall penguin in

jw
friends

i had a memory come up today.

i recall there was a time when kids were allowed to read the subheadings at the watchtower study.

they cut that out because they wanted kids to participate in the same way as the adults, by answering the questions for the paragraphs.

zack

No one mocks the true beleivers. The system of beleifs handed down like the sacred pronouncements of God by those WHO KNOW they are no such things

is what created these experiences. And when I see a 2 year old being spanked becuase he cannot sit still for two hours at a KH, this is because of the

system of beleifs that the KH is somehow the sacred TEMPLE and dwelling place of God and no disruption regardless of how minor or by what minor is to be tolerated.

And those that enforce that system should be ranted against.