My wife and I have had a similar conversation. If you look in the Bible, all of these big players in the grand scheme of things were people that went against the status quo. They actually stood up for truth as they saw it or as Jehovah showed it to them. You cannot do that within the confines of the organization. What is it that you read story after story on here about that the elders ask you if you express doubts? It seems to be, "do you still believe that this is the one true religion?". Well, I believe that it is one religion, and that it has some truth in it, but no, it isn't the only religion with truth as a component. What we were taught wasn't all true either, see the many predictions that fell through to give way to "new light". It also has some very toxic components to it and the organization seems to have become bigger than actual truth. But if you are one that sees it, people will condemn you. It is a lonely place to be, but I've always marched to the beat of my own drummer, so be it.
dubstepped
JoinedPosts by dubstepped
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14
At the Kingdom Hall
by paradisebeauty ini was thinking of starting a topic on thoughts that go through your mind while attending meetings.... right now i am at the meeting and thinking ... we study about jesus's courage to stand by rightness and truth, about him getting in conflict with religious leaders who thought of themselves as experts of the law, jesus understood truth and god differently of them and he had the courage to speak out!.
so we study this, but after that we draw the concluzion that courage is to go preaching and identify yourself as a witness .... well, this in not what i understand from jesus's courage!.
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How to Choose a Wife!
by snugglebunny inback in the day, when my family moved to a new congregation, i fell head over heels with a young sister who was an elder's daughter.
it wasn't long before we were talking about marriage and i was contemplating buying her an engagement ring.
my parents were not happy at all.
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dubstepped
Funny the things I accepted back then that now make my stomach turn. I read this to my wife, and she said that her father told her the story recanted earlier by Joe and Faye. He was trying to get her to test me. I would have passed with flying colors back then.
A person I know had a young sister that he was dating and she inquired of the elders about him, and they told her family that they wouldn't let their daughter marry him. Yeah, he had some issues in life, but at least he was real about them. They were more mental issues than anything, and I don't think it should be up to them to decide who is or isn't worthy of a marriage mate. After all, many of those same elders live in absolutely miserable marriages like the one I grew up watching. Not the person I want marriage advice from.
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How do stop myself getting too Bitter?
by stuckinarut2 inyou know, i always maintained that during this fading process, and while learning ttatt, i would not let myself get "bitter twisted and angry".... but, in all honesty, if i examine myself, i have become quite bitter toward the org, toward the false friends and the gb.. i have become angry as i see the extent of damage i feel being raised in "the truth" has done.... i feel hurt towards the lost opportunities in life etc.... how do i not allow myself to get too swallowed up by such bitterness?.
i have always been a very happy, positive, selfless person.
i can put people at ease, i am someone people feel comfortable chatting to.
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dubstepped
I've been dealing with this a lot lately in the org and my family. What I came to realize is that I needed to forgive. You forgive for yourself, not for the other person, so that you can let go. I did some research on how to forgive someone that isn't sorry. I came across a quote that went something like "forgiveness is letting go of the hope that it could have been any different". That helped me to see just that. It couldn't have been different. Everyone thought they were doing what was best, however misguided, and mental illness was involved to some extent. It may not have been best for me, but back then I didn't know any better either. It was what it was, and nobody comes out without scars no matter if we're talking JWs, religion in general, childhood, family stuff, or even if you were all alone on an island in a protective bubble. There's nothing wrong with feeling the bitterness and anger (which usually just masks deep pain), but at a point it is healthy to forgive for your own sake. -
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Hi Everyone. Answer to prayer countdown...
by Stumpy ini've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.
you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!
what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.
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dubstepped
And those who treat me with the greatest distance are some of who used to be the closest to me. Many of those who were just acquaintances remain more or less the same. Odd.
EdenThose closest to you have their own identity at stake. They identify with "The Truth", but they also identify with you as their close friend. When those two entities are in conflict, it threatens them. They know who you are and obviously respected your views on some level. To have such a person be negative about their other greatly respected entity is a threat to them and who they are and what they believe. I know how badly I fought what I started to see. It is easier to live in denial and cut you off than to try and hold two opposing views in their midst. I believe that's the very nature of cognitive dissonance. Those that weren't close to you have less skin in the game, less importance attached to you versus their beliefs, so you aren't a threat.
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Hi Everyone. Answer to prayer countdown...
by Stumpy ini've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.
you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!
what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.
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dubstepped
I feel for ya Stumpy, and Mrs. Stumpy. I've been on an emotional rollercoaster for some time now. Getting to your question to your wife about whether or not JW's have "the truth", I think that the organization sets themselves up for failure right there. By labeling what you have as "the truth", you had better bring it, and they don't. They have "some truths", but not "THE TRUTH" as they claim. As long as you blindly believe whatever they present as the one and only truth, as most do, never questioning, you are fine. It is when you open those eyes and start noticing things that things really get hard. I honestly think that if we could discuss openly the truths that we find that contradicted "THE TRUTH", and that if the organization as a whole had the humility to say that they really don't know on this or that instead of trying to predict things or read into things, then maybe someday I could find a place in the organization. But I can't sit there and listen to people spread hurtful untruths at the meetings, all the while claiming them as "THE TRUTH", and espousing such vitriol to others in the world simply because they don't believe the exact same way. Beliefs are mere thoughts, not the measure of who a person truly is. It reflects more as to what that person was taught than who they are.
I was recently reading "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle, and although I don't agree with all of it, he really speaks to the difference between the ego and who we really are. He gets into organized religion and the "collective ego" that it breeds, wherein all involved identify so much with their thoughts and belief structures that they simply cannot discuss openly any challenges to those structures because it is really questioning who they are at that point, which they cannot handle. THAT is the JW organization as a whole, all about thoughts and uniformity and identification with such, not open minded seekers of truth that are allowed to be who they are individually within the structure of the organization. When I lurked here I always thought that those calling us "The Borg" was so fitting. It is a tough place to be once you wake up. For now I just don't have a place where I fit in entirely, and I finally feel like that's okay, because I get to be me, not some robot version of me.
Just remember, anything you decide today isn't permanent. Life is a filmstrip, not a snapshot. One moment doesn't necessarily define you. You'll go through stages of grief with this like anything else. You just lost something HUGE in your life. I'm not sure you ever get over it, you will learn how to manage those feelings better though, and time heals a lot of wounds. You don't have to decide anything today, just take your time and leave it in Jehovah's hands if you still have faith in Him, or leave it in the hands of time.
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Hi Everyone. Answer to prayer countdown...
by Stumpy ini've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.
you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!
what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.
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dubstepped
I know how you feel. Last year I was determine to fix my spirituality, to really get on track in the organization. I prayed a lot that Jehovah would show me what my wife and I needed to do. The answer wasn't what I thought it would be. Where things take me, we'll see. I leave it in Jehovah's hands and if I'm wrong in the end it won't be because I didn't have faith in Jehovah. I see the organization as a disaster just like the Israelites though.
A quote I like is to "run with those that search for truth, and run like hell from those that claim to have found it".
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I had every intention of going to the Memorial last night.......
by dubstepped ini wanted to go and to do it for jehovah and jesus and what they've done for me.
i wanted it to be a personal thing between them and i. i haven't been to a meeting in close to a year, not that anyone notices or cares.
this isn't my first stint away, and nobody would notice or care if i was found dead.
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dubstepped
......I really did. I wanted to go and to do it for Jehovah and Jesus and what they've done for me. I wanted it to be a personal thing between them and I. I haven't been to a meeting in close to a year, not that anyone notices or cares. This isn't my first stint away, and nobody would notice or care if I was found dead. That whole "love" thing that JW's claim to own the rights to and be identified by is certainly not theirs alone, nor is it their's predominantly. Anyway, I know that if I go I'm going to get lots of insensitive and rude comments, among some that seem sincere and caring, at least as long as I make the effort to be in their presence. Otherwise they don't care.
So, I prayed about it as the time neared. I wanted to go, but I was starting to get anxious about doing so. I wanted to leave it in Jehovah's hands, and I told him in prayer that if he didn't want me to go to make it plain to me. Well, that night I got this really weird weather alert text on my phone, so loud that it woke me up. I've had this phone for a long time and never received such an alert. I didn't know it was the phone, but instead got up and looked outside. We were having severe weather, and it was truly an other worldly noise. Eventually I pieced it together in my 2:00AM haze. However, then I couldn't go back to sleep for a couple of hours, another thing that was out of the ordinary. Usually I fall asleep with ease. I then woke up for work really horribly, a rough start to the day. I was honestly in a mood to rip someone's head off when I woke up, not conducive to walking into a Kingdom Hall to be met with judgement. The clincher was when someone in the hall called to let us know that they were going into a similar business as us and that if we had some extra work we could give it to them. Not to see if we were still alive, not to encourage us in any way, not someone that has contacted us in years, but someone that just wanted us to give them business.
I had my answer right there. No way was I going last night. I had a headache when I woke up, felt horrible, hated people, and then one of them calls for their own selfish gain because none of them actually care about anything but themselves. In the words of Ruckley from One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, "f-f-f-f fuck em all"!
I wanted to go. I wanted to be the bigger man when I went, to be pleasant to people even though they've hurt me deeply over my life. I left it in Jehovah's hands, and he told me that it wasn't for me. What is? I don't know, but I do know that when I put things in His hands I usually get an answer if I'm patient. I had a couple of out of the ordinary things happen in a matter of hours. But I know that those humans that I've tried so hard to fit into over the years, that have treated me so poorly, can all go jump off a cliff. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me umpteen times, shame on me, and fuck you for being toxic. I'm done trying.
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Exclusive Witnesses might be more Appropriate!
by yodastar ini've been thinking of late that really what is the difference between the exclusive witnesses and the exclusive brethren?
) they are controlling, limiting and the only right way as far as religion goes.. in fact the 'truth' slogan was an amazing marketing campaign and really does work for those members.
are you in the truth one would ask?
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dubstepped
I went through a lot of emotional abuse as a kid from both the organization and my parents. Whether witnesses or not, my parents are damaged, and hurt people tend to hurt people.
I might recommend you read or at least look into the book called Narcissistic Families. It described my family well, but the religion too. Basically narcissists see other humans as mere objects to be controlled. They don't care about your feelings and don't see you as a person with them. That pretty much sums up my experiences.
I also read a good book on emotional abuse if you're interested. I can't remember the name offhand.
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Disfellowshipping is an loving arrangment. NOT!!!!
by gma-tired2 inalert this is a rant.
recently i lost someone very special to me to death.
she was so many things to me, my cousin, best friend, and next door neighbor thru our teens.
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dubstepped
First let me say that I'm so sorry to hear this experience. It is sad that JW's don't let love govern their actions and reactions and instead have become so rule oriented and rigid.
Second, the title of this thread is something has really been hammered home by the brothers and sisters but that doesn't hold water. It was always explained that it was to help the erring one to return to Jehovah. But if their relationship with Jehovah hangs on blackmailing them into coming back simply to avoid shunning, what relationship is there really? And if this is all supposedly about a relationship between Jehovah and that person, why am I somehow put in the middle of it? Their relationship is between them and Jehovah, not them and me. Not to mention that some just change their mind on what they choose to believe, which is their personal decision. Why do we then have to treat them as less than any other "worldly" person? Doesn't make sense to me.
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One day assembly
by Sour Grapes inat a recent one day assembly i walked away with the thought that the wtbts sure does not like witnesses who have the opportunity to make a good living.
there were, in one day, three experiences of witnesses who turned down "6 figure salaries" because there would be some traveling involved and some meetings would be missed as well as missing family worship night.
i thought it strange that the exact phrase was used of "6 figure salary".
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dubstepped
Oh man, this is a sore spot for me. At the international convention one of the GB (I believe, may be wrong) gave a talk where he related an experience of some brother that cut his income to less than half but somehow now made more money because he didn't have to pay so many taxes. I really doubt the guy was paying 50% income tax. They seem to have no concept of money. I grew up poor in the organization, and although we didn't have enough food at times without gifts from others or government assistance and of course we weren't getting new toys or anything, we certainly had time to go out and pioneer with our parents as young kids.
At an assembly locally a family was up on stage as a shining example of how to live on the government and pioneer, and it made me sick. I hustle in my cleaning business and break my back because I was turned away from full ride scholarships and several unique business opportunities because I knew that the world was going to end and the right thing to do was to pioneer. I walked away from opportunities that could have actually given me a better chance at earning a living part-time to promote kingdom interests while not eating dog food to survive and that was looked at as bad. I wonder how many dubs have anything saved for retirement. I know so many that live off of government assistance, which was meant for those that couldn't do better for themselves, not for those who chose not to. I make decent money, but only because I work harder, not smarter.