Posts by dubstepped

76

JW Org Flags at R.C.

by ToesUp in

photo was posted on jw-archive.

j.w.org flags flying at the 2015 r.c.

in fribourg, switzerland..

Anthony Morris III goes on an eight minute rant over child abuse

by Richard_I in

jw
friends

this is in the july 2015 monthly program on tv.jw.org cedars wrote about it too.. starting at around 42:30 in the video, morris talks about the child abuse situation for almost 10 minutes.

link to video.

i'm writing a transcript right now.

dubstepped

steve2 - Joe's opening line is fraught with poor logic. Who said the alternative to the two-witness rule is to act on every accusation? Talk about a false choice. And the phrase "I know people hate this rule" damns with faint praise.
Let's get this straight: I hate the Two-Witness rule not because of the false choice outlined in that sentence but because it is an archaic leftover from the Mosaic Law Code that has been arbitrarily imposed on a modern-day setting all in the name of (the organization's) reputation.
Objections to the two-witness rule have nothing to do with going to the police/not going to the police or the complexity of issues that surround Child Sexual Abuse.
Arguments about how elusive evidence is in instances of child sexual abuse are an entirely separate issue.
Parents and/or court-sanctioned caregivers need to be supported by their respective communities to act decisively for the child's safety - which is paramount; they do not to be confronted by the elders with the requirement that two witnesses are needed before anything will be done.
Depending on the circumstances, the approrpiate action may involve different steps - but the parents and/or caregivers need to decide untrammeled by the powers that be in the local kingdom hall.

Joe didn't write that, I did. At least call out the correct person. I wrote other things too, but you probably didn't bother to read them either. Boy, you sure sussed out my hidden motives with my false logic and faint praises.

I agree that the powers that be in a KH shouldn't have any say on such a matter, and said as much. However, since it is being taken to them, there has to be some sort of corroboration in order to act with regard to disciplinary action within the confines of the congregation, which is what we happened to be talking about, even if you don't deem it reasonable. It is something that exists whether you like it or not, and as such I was merely discussing how to handle the situation within existing parameters. In large organizations like this things are often better handled in an either/or mindset, as allowing such untrained men to use judgement as to the circumstances is often disastrous.

59

A difficult yet necessary decision

by Brother Jeramy in

the past five weeks have been perhaps the most painful in my life as a witness.. some months ago a young man (i'd say in his late thirties or early forties) began attending meetings at my kingdom hall.

he had just moved to my area from another state.

he had disassociated himself from his home congregation many years back, when he was 20 years old and going through many of the typical trials and temptations most young men experience.. two of the elders met with him initially, and they later shared the details with the body of elders.

dubstepped

Hi Jeramy,

I can identify with what you saw and it is painful to watch. I have recently been shunned by my family for associating with a relative who was disfellowshipped a long time ago but that lead a clean and upstanding life even though he's not a JW, which many seem to think is an impossibility. It only takes one act outside the bounds of what they set for you and boom, you're dead to them. They view people as throwaway objects, even when those ones want to come back.

Jeramy, I know from some pm's that you highly value your "family" of brothers and sisters. I would advise you to take a few months to get past this before making a decision that would cut you off completely from people that you seemed to hold dear. Your "family" is highly dysfunctional in areas, and although for me that dysfunction leads me to stay away from the toxicity, maybe for you it isn't as toxic and it gives something to you even if you aren't a staunch JW supporter anymore. I've mulled over disassociation as well, and honestly don't have anything to lose at this point that would affect me today, but I look down the line toward the future and know that if someday down the road a family member were to awaken somewhat that disassociation might be a hindrance to them reaching out. So, you have to decide if you want to put that wall up. Once it is up it can't be taken down easily. You can't un-ring a bell. Once it's done, it's done.

I wish you peace, though I know it is hard to find when faith (whether in God, a religion, or certain people) gets shattered.

98

Anthony Morris III goes on an eight minute rant over child abuse

by Richard_I in

jw
friends

this is in the july 2015 monthly program on tv.jw.org cedars wrote about it too.. starting at around 42:30 in the video, morris talks about the child abuse situation for almost 10 minutes.

link to video.

i'm writing a transcript right now.

dubstepped

@ Joe Grundy

I think you and I are on the same page regarding the separation. I think that attacking the 2 witness rule is going after the wrong thing. In my opinion, we should all be attacking why the elders are even trying to handle these matters in the first place. Child sexual abuse is a CRIME, not something that elders should even be hearing. If someone in the congregation murders someone, do they take it before the elders who then refuse to report it and keep it all in house? It should all be taken directly to the police as a criminal matter.

It is a shame that people give the organization such power and esteem. They give up their mental faculties to those men and let them tell them how to think, how to feel, and what to do and how to do it. Even something as private as sex between consenting married adults can become a judicial matter in some cases. Sometimes things that go on are none of their business. Something as serious as child sexual abuse should never go to them in the first place.

98

Anthony Morris III goes on an eight minute rant over child abuse

by Richard_I in

jw
friends

this is in the july 2015 monthly program on tv.jw.org cedars wrote about it too.. starting at around 42:30 in the video, morris talks about the child abuse situation for almost 10 minutes.

link to video.

i'm writing a transcript right now.

dubstepped

Re: The 2 witness rule

I know that people hate this rule, but are they really supposed to act on every accusation without any evidence? I'm all for them going straight to the authorities and letting people with actual experience and investigative tools (the police) make determinations based on what they gather, but I just don't see how they can go from accusation to df'ing automatically in the congregation.

I see problems with going to calling the organization before the police. I see problems with them not letting the next congregation know that someone was previously accused. If a person is accused on more than one occasion or by multiple people, I can see the need to act. However, one accusation unsupported is difficult to act upon no matter how awful that might be. Am I missing something about the two witness rule? I'm all for protecting kids, but I don't know how anyone can convict whether in the congregation or a court of law without some corroboration somewhere.

I also just don't think that the elders should be in on these cases whatsoever. To me they should recuse themselves based on lack of ability and training in such cases and immediately refer them to the proper authorities and stay out of it.

56

JW's came to my door 6 weeks ago. I told them I was inactive.......

by Alchemist in

6 weeks ago some jws came to my door.

i've been inactive for 8 years.

after they gave their presentation i told them i was inactive.

dubstepped

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." - Maya Angelou

JW's claim to be identified by their love. So Alchemist, tell me, where is it? Anyone? They talk the talk but fail to walk the walk. Their love is expressed in numbers like hours, placements, time spent wandering from one side of the territory to the other to kill time, knocking on doors where they know people aren't home while avoiding places where people are. But when it really comes down to connecting with someone, to searching for lost sheep, where are they? This was a big part of my awakening. Decades devoted to an organization and I had zero friends. I know everybody, and lots of people know me, but there's absolutely no connection and never has been. Sure, everyone loved me when I did everything in the congregation and I was looked up to back then, but step down and watch all of the "love" and adoration disappear. People start talking about you and the rumor mill fires up.

In the immortal words of the Black Eyed Peas (rap/pop group for those unfamiliar), "where is the love"? I heard about it from the platform. I talked about it like it existed because I was told is was all around. But when I needed it, it was nowhere to be found. I've disappeared for a year and a half without so much as a peep before. When I reached out to fix some problems in my life nobody walked with me, in fact I was told that it couldn't be done. I've literally asked for shepherding calls in the past and was told no. No explanation. People would rather talk about me than to me. It has always been that way. What a petty and narcissistic bunch of people.

So, right now you're being shown who these people are. Will you believe them? Or will you hope for something different like I did over and over again and be fooled not once, not twice, but several times? I wish I would have believed them when they told me a long time ago. Lots of wasted time and hurt feelings. You know how many of the "Return To Jehovah" brochures I've received? Zero. None from family. None from the congregation I attended. Z-e-r-o. They don't care and never have except to the extent that it counted on a time sheet and was easy. When the chips are down, you find out who your real friends are, and I've never had even one.

51

Just found out my older brother has passed away

by stuckinarut2 in

jw
friends

i have just found out that my brother (who was one of a bunch that shared this login) has died.. he and his wife were living in another country where they once pioneered.

i didn't see him that often.. such an empty feeling.....

dubstepped

So sorry for your loss, and for the distance over the years.

204

Candace Conti Settles

by Nitty-Gritty in

hot topic on topix seems to be candace conti settlement.

but it's all quiet here.

are you guys aware that your hero, who was not in it for the money but to change policies, settled without changing anything?

dubstepped

dubstepped: "Saying that nobody should answer their door for JW's if they have kids."
I've seen news video of a JW pedophile knocking on doors. If I were an elder in his congregation I would ban him from doing any field service.

Sure, if someone is a known pedophile, it would be prudent not to open one's door for them if you have young children. I wasn't referring to posts in reference to one isolated incident with known predators caught on camera, but rather the view that there's just JW pedo's running amok in the streets, knocking on doors to steal everyone's children. I'm sure that it happens, but not at levels to justify the hysteria accompanying these discussions. Otherwise we should all just hide our wives and kids because the world is a dangerous place.

I do agree that there is no reason for a pedophile to be going out in field service. If rigidity and dogmatism demands that literally every individual preach the good news, let him or her write letters or something for others to follow up on. Still, if that person wants to molest kids, nobody is going to stop him/her. They can be managed, but ultimately it is up to them to stop.

204

Candace Conti Settles

by Nitty-Gritty in

hot topic on topix seems to be candace conti settlement.

but it's all quiet here.

are you guys aware that your hero, who was not in it for the money but to change policies, settled without changing anything?

dubstepped

I've never spoken on this subject at all, not that anyone was waiting for me to, but I thought I'd finally chime in.

First, the original post is in bad form. If you're trying to get anyone to actually listen, you might want to change your tactics. Then again, it is reminiscent of the ego driven organization that I was involved in for so long, devoid of empathy and usually either on the attack or playing the victim.

However, that doesn't mean that I don't agree with some of nitty's points. I actually was in a congregation where a convicted molester started studying and coming to meetings. He was related to another family in the congregation. The elders did a good job of letting everyone with children know the concern and he was watched. That's really about all they can do. If he went on to molest someone with everyone aware and on guard, that's not the organization's fault.

I also grew up with a friend in my congregation who I later found out was molested. His parents, both of them as far as I'm aware, perpetrated it and forced the kids to do things to one another. Just absolutely horrible stuff. Was that the organization's fault in some way? Nope.

People do all kinds of messed up things. In my opinion, many here hate the organization and want to see them taken down by any means possible. I've seen posts here lately that make it seem like the entire congregation is nothing but evil people looking to prey upon children. Saying that nobody should answer their door for JW's if they have kids. That kind of hysterical speech just casts doubts when someone really was hurt because it becomes so overblown. People always want to sue and go after the deep pockets feeling that someone should have to pay, particularly in such emotional events as the devastating effects of molestation on kids and their families. I understand why, but you don't necessarily get to sue people that couldn't have prevented something just because they have money and you got hurt. Well, you do get to sue, but not necessarily win. Going around labeling people based on one accusation is a great way to get sued yourself, and in one's honest hope to protect children they may be hurting other people unnecessarily. It is a slippery slope, and I don't believe that there is any way to prevent such things. That doesn't mean that the organization shouldn't try, but they can only do so much.

In the end, there isn't a really great way to handle this. You can't just go around labeling people with such a horrendous tag as a sexual predator without some sort of proof, physical or someone corroborating something. Nobody can really know what goes on behind closed doors. Only the people living there know, and we don't live in a world where we can police everything. With that said, the police do exist, and I'm in favor of every case being sent to them as the authorities. Barring another adult in the family going to them, if elders know about something I think that they should have to report it and let the authorities do a professional investigation, not one performed by untrained general laborers.

For years it seemed that everyone turned a blind eye to what was going on with sexual predators. People didn't seem to understand the depths of the compulsion to do what they do, and often if a person "found God" in some way and appeared to be a fine, upstanding citizen, they were cleared of suspicion. I would be concerned that in the organization this would still be true on some level. People in the organization seem to trust one another implicitly, and often to a fault. They see the organization as a romanticized group of people that are like a fantasy, all good upstanding people with hearts of gold that carry nothing but Jehovah's laws and principles on their hearts. There is an unrealistic view of one another, and of those taking the lead, that does scare me for kids. In the instance that I mentioned above where the elders warned our congregation of the new person that was attending, I shuddered as I watched my own parents let my little sister talk to him. In my opinion, he should have known better and kept great distance, especially as he was new. But like I said before, he was related to others in the congregation, and we know that we have to keep up appearances and look a certain way, even if it means possibly exposing a little girl to someone that could be very bad for her.

4

The " Knockout Game" or a Cowardly Punch ?.

by smiddy in

i started this op because of an interchange of two posters on this board which hit a nerve with me , as the title suggests.. i think the video clip /u-tube shown was self explanatory that it is not a myth as one poster said., which was viewed under the subject of the confederate flag.. i cannot imagine the chaos / fallout that would occur if whites adopt the same "game " as these guys.and go around doing the same thing.

which is probably happening anyway .but it needs to be stopped pronto.. are you up to it usa ?.

i am in australia and we have seen a trend take place here which is very troubling.

dubstepped

How can it be a game if those involved don't know they're participating until they're hurt or dead? It is simply cowardly and they should be charged with murder if that's the outcome, IMO.