greendawn

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Posts by greendawn

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  17

  Family Waits to See if Mother Will Be Hanged for Blasphemy

  by whereami in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx-a1hmvmh0.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqrihmayxly.

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  greendawn

  Thanks Poppers the trick was to highlight the link in the answer field in order to activate the "insert/edit link" button which I didn't know.
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  17

  Family Waits to See if Mother Will Be Hanged for Blasphemy

  by whereami in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx-a1hmvmh0.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqrihmayxly.

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  greendawn

  Thanks Whereami, but how do you insert links that are clickable? I have been away for so long and the interface of the answer box has changed a lot since and though I was looking to make the above URL address clickable I couldn't figure out how.
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  55

  shunning is love - Feb 15 2011 Watchtower

  by jj123jj123 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  18 if you face a similar situation, please remember that jehovah sympathizes with you.

  by cutting off contact with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one, you are showing that you hate the attitudes and actions that led to that outcome.

  however, you are also showing that you love the wrongdoer enough to do what is best for him or her.

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  greendawn

  Gary 1914 very good observation:

  "Actually the congregations mirror the outside world, its just that the organization legislates how we are to act toward one another. So we appear kind and loving and helpful on the outside. Inside, we are teaming with disappointment and mental anguish. Of course, this is not true in all instances. There are truly warm and loving people in the organization."

  The JW org has a one sided approach that deals mainly with the rational side of things but leaves the emotional side neglected people do not want just dry knowledge but to feel loved and supported both by the org and the individual JW something that doesn't exist leading to a sense of disappointment. There is no love simply because the organisation, the WTS, does not love its members but rather seeks to deceive and exploit them something typical of religious organisations.

  Shunning as practised by the JWs is too draconian and counterproductive it is applied over trivial issues such as celebrating birthdays or Christmas and is also used as a means to protect the authority of the leadership by isolating and removing all dissent ie it is a means to punish so as to sustain authority rather than an expression of....love.
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  17

  Family Waits to See if Mother Will Be Hanged for Blasphemy

  by whereami in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx-a1hmvmh0.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqrihmayxly.

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  greendawn

  It is clear that these people are still stuck in the middle ages just like any country that applies the sharia law. As the reporter asked can you imagine people being hanged for insulting Jesus? It could have happened during the middle ages under catholicism but now it is considered utter barbarism. And who knows if the woman did really say that Mohammed had worms in his mouth or if she was falsely accused of it due to the policy they have for harassing Christians? Can you imagine a Muslim getting hanged in Europe or America for blaspheming the Christ or Christianity?

  There is more interesting information about this story here:

  http://www.compassdirect.org/english/country/pakistan/28627/
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  11

  Why (time and again) Jehovah's Witnesses set dates

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the method by which people accept god as a reality is called faith and belief which is a bypass exempting proof.. faith is seen as a virtue and lack of faith as a moral failing.. so, why the insistance on dragging proof into the discussion?.

  something called a isn't the same as something called not a.. faith is a workaround.

  proof is evidence confirming fact.. so, which is it going to be?

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  greendawn

  This is an old trick and a clever piece of psychology and we should all know by now that all these religions do not have it in them to be honest and truthful towards their members instead their fundamental mindset and intention is to deceive and promote their own interests.

  Setting dates about the end aims to keep their members under the impression that it is imminent which makes them need the organization since it is as they (falsely) believe the means to survive the coming divine anger. So it keeps the followers in which means continuing financial benefits since they provide not just cheap but free labour plus a fair amount of donations.

  To deceive 6 or 7 million people to regularly work for you for nothing is quite an achievement and only religion con artists could do this.
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  24

  Does the Bible Teach a Second Chance After Death?

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the bible teaches a resurrection of the dead, but does it teach a second chance after death or a judgment based on our life before we died?.

  hebrews 9:27 says: " just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will .

  appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.".

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  greendawn

  GrandmaJones, the two rolls in revelation, the first roll could be referring to the deeds of the first life and the second roll to those of the second life.
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  24

  Does the Bible Teach a Second Chance After Death?

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the bible teaches a resurrection of the dead, but does it teach a second chance after death or a judgment based on our life before we died?.

  hebrews 9:27 says: " just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will .

  appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.".

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  greendawn

  Hi Ding, this is the crux of the matter, relying solely on the Bible for answers is not the right attitude at times we need to relegate it to the back seat and allow common sense and rational thought to take over and explore the unknown, the Bible particularly the new testament is far too small to give answers to all questions, in fact to most questions. It gives us a good basis to build on and many issues we need to work out without it. It is the JW, similar to many protestant groups, belief that the Bible contains all we need to know whereas it only contains a small fraction of what we need to know. They also believe it is unadulterated whereas at least in the new testament around 10 - 12% of verses are tainted, they were interpolated or altered as Origen was writing already back in the late second century there were people who "through negligence or perverse audacity" were altering the gospels. There is no need to be clingy to the so called Bible inerrancy though no doubt it contains numerous valuable truths.

  Now as for the second life it is obvious that for people who never got the chance to hear the gospel or who were too coerced to be able to follow their choices will be treated differently from those who knew and had their freedom of choice to do as they wished. See also the comparison between the Jews of Jesus's days and the people of Sodom and Gomorah, their fate during their second life after the resurrection. Logically if they are to be fair to everyone then all will have to be judged while operating in the same conditions free of ignorance and coercion.
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  24

  Does the Bible Teach a Second Chance After Death?

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the bible teaches a resurrection of the dead, but does it teach a second chance after death or a judgment based on our life before we died?.

  hebrews 9:27 says: " just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will .

  appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.".

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  greendawn

  That's exactly what it does, with the resurrection of all the dead why are they resurrected but to get a second chance especially if they have mitigating circumstances such as having suffered from ignorance or coercion. Otherwise it seems that one's actions in the first life will have a bearing during the second life for some even leading to humiliation.
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  57

  Is the Soul Immortal...Biblically Speaking?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder if someone would care to produce a list (full quotes) of all the proof texts in scripture they are aware of that establish that the human soul is innately immortal?.

  just the scriptures...without comment please...so everyone will see just how clear the bible alone (sola scriptura) is on this issue.

  vander.

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  greendawn

  I also concur that there is absolutely nothing in the Bible to support an innately immortal soul, that idea is purely and simply a pagan idea from ancient Greece, Egypt, Mesopotamia etc

  Recently my thinking is moving in the direction that there is a soul in humans in addition to the physical body but it also disintegrates and dies upon death albeit at the invisible level, the JWs believe that there is no soul mortal or immortal but only some kind of energy like electricity that keeps the physical body alive that has no consciousness of its own and returns to God upon death.

  However Tatian who was an early Christian maintained the soul is not innately immortal but conditionally immortal meaning that if a Christian reached a certain level of spiritual excellence his soul can receive immortality and continue living after physical death perhaps referring to those that were martyred that died for the Christian faith and are considered to be alive near God in the book of Revelation?

  So do we have three classes of people? The elite saints that never really taste death just in the way that pagans believed that is their consciousness is never interrupted as they continue to live in the soul that was strong enough to survive the death of the body, the lesser saints that are restored to life in the first resurrection and receive an immortal body probably the same as a soul (body) which is similar to an angelic body and the rest of mankind that are raised in the definitely second class resurrection much later than the first and still with a mortal physical body that will be, horror, restricted from the joys of food and sex and liable to a second death that unlike the first one is final, still having to prove worthy of eternal life.

  This theory may well be wrong and some people here may be able to point out faults in it but there are also the verses: do not fear those that can destroy the body but not the soul, that the devil, his angels and their human instruments known collectively as "the beast 666" probably symbolizing the most criminal and barbarous fraction of mankind are going to suffer eternal torment in the lake of fire.

  The issue is complicated by the fact that those who wrote the new testament lived 2000 years ago and were ignorant people compared to today's standards and besides many spurious verses and perhaps entire letters were introduced in the scriptures and since considered to be genuine so this immortality issue may well not be resolvable through the Bible alone and trying to do so is a total waste of time. There is much truth in the new testament but I believe also a fair amount of spuriousness introduced by people who were trying to promote their own ideas.
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  3

  Lack of connection to apostolic church

  by greendawn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jws claim they are the true christian religion even though they only appeared suddenly and very recently.

  but what is it that connects them with the early apostolic church so as to make it possible for them to claim they are its successors?.

  indeed if we check out their history we see that their immediate predecessors and teachers the adventists were rejected by them as a false religion, they believed in hellfire and the immortality of the soul.

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  greendawn

  The JWs claim they are the true christian religion even though they only appeared suddenly and very recently. But what is it that connects them with the early apostolic church so as to make it possible for them to claim they are its successors?

  Indeed if we check out their history we see that their immediate predecessors and teachers the Adventists were rejected by them as a false religion, they believed in hellfire and the immortality of the soul. So we can't even find the link that just preceded them which surely invalidates their claim that they ultimately originate from the apostolic church. There is simply nothing connecting them to the apostolic church and validating them as the "truth" they claim to be.

  Something useful to point out to the JWs when they argue that they are the true christian religion.