Athanasius

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Posts by Athanasius

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  25

  Can't get any bibles?

  by gold_C in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so according to people in every congregation i've mentionned it to, the slave isn't producing any more bibles.

  at first i thought that they were going to release an updated translation, like the updated brochures that were given at the latest convention, but that didn't happen, and everyone from the branch claims that there is "a reason for it", yet they're being extremely secretive.. .

  can anyone who's got ties to bethel help me out here?

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  Athanasius

  Maybe the GB is in the process of making a deal with a "worldly publisher" to print NWT at a cost cheaper than printing it on Watchtower presses.
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  73

  The Watchtower Writers need to answer this question "Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history!"

  by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how come the watchtower will not side with christendom and address a topic like the following?

  what if christendom had allowed islam to spread it's plunder into europe without a fight and great force?

  i direct your attention to islam spreading not as a distraction, but to ask the question most atheist have asked me when we talk of this subject.

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  Athanasius

  Hi Still Thinking.

  Marx may have said that religion is the opiate of the people, but the Soviet Union, which had the worst record for killing their own people, was anti-religious. In fact atheism was promoted by the Soviet system.

  While I do share your concern about certain segments of Islam, I'm more concerned about the politico-economic forces that are gaining control of our world.
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  73

  The Watchtower Writers need to answer this question "Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history!"

  by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how come the watchtower will not side with christendom and address a topic like the following?

  what if christendom had allowed islam to spread it's plunder into europe without a fight and great force?

  i direct your attention to islam spreading not as a distraction, but to ask the question most atheist have asked me when we talk of this subject.

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  Athanasius

  History will show that it is "Politics, not religion is the real force behind the mass murders." Not that there haven't been victims of past religious wars. But if you consider the 60 million death toll under Soviet Communism, the 30 million deaths under Chinese Communism, the 4 million deaths under Cambodian Communism, the 35 million Chinese deaths from Japanese militarism, and the 6 million Jews killed under Nazism, to name a few examples of the 20th Century, it seems that you are in greater danger of being killed by your government than your church, mosque, temple, or synagogue .
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  47

  2013 Drama: "Show Yourself Attentive"

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is the first of three "dramas" this dc, and i have to say, it was one of the weirdest dramas ever.

  i won't go through all the details.

  maybe someone else wants to throw in their 2c.. it starts out with two men standing on the "beach" talking, but it took me awhile to figure out what in the hell was going on.

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  Athanasius

  I also got the "this video is private" warning. What gives?
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  23

  Does the borg really produce great readers? How much did you actually read when in?

  by likeabird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been reading a lot and learning even more (project deadlines to meet), getting this overwhelming satisfaction and feeling good.. and then i stopped and realised that i never got that feeling when reading borg publications.. i also realized that i have probably read more non-fiction books in the last month than i did during my whole life in the borg.. for all my reading (and i was fully in) i read no more than two wt books cover to cover.

  none of my study books were studied cover to cover and wts were usually quickly underlined and rarely properly studied.

  magazines were usually flicked through and resolutions to read them cover to cover rarely lasted more than a few weeks.. i did manage to read the bible through once - but that was because i was always afraid someone door to door would ask me if i had, so i figured i should just crack on with it.

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  Athanasius

  I was an avid reading while in the borg and after. However, as a JW I merely skimmed through Watchtower publications, preferring to read history and politics and still do. As others have mentioned the publications of the Freddy Franz era, though kookie, did take more than a 5th grade reading ability.

  I should also mention that while in the JWs I read almost every book that Hugh J. Schonfield wrote including the Passover Plot and the Pentecost Revolution. Of course I left the borg in 1984 when it was a slightly different religion than present day JWism.

  During my JW years I read the Bible Genesis through Revelation only once, and I was an elder. Back then most of the elders that I knew rarely read the Bible and barely kept up with the latest Watchtower magazine. Moreover, the Bible that I read cover to cover wasn't the NWT, but the New English Bible which included the deutrocanonical books not found in the NWT. Since leaving the JWs I've read the New American Bible and the Today's English Version.

  Currently I'm reading Wild Bill Donovan--The Last Hero by Anthony Cave Brown.
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  62

  Should all elders be painted with the same brush?

  by Socrateswannabe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  an hour or two ago, i was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to jwn.

  there was some criticism aimed at the op and i understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special.

  one poster said he/she hates all elders.

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  Athanasius

  Socrates--

  In answer to your first question, no.

  However, I really do understand your situation as I was in the same position 30 years ago. I had served as an elder from 1972 to 1984. During those years we saw the liberal reforms of Watchtower Vatican II replaced by the repressive measures of a reactionary GB in 1981. Then in the spring of 1984 I learned TTATT after reading Crisis of Conscience and Apostles of Denial.

  So it was decision time. Do I resign as an elder, fade, and take the chance of losing my JW family and friends? Or do I stay on, keep quiet, but work behind the scenes to help individual JWs, and keep my family? For over six months I chose the latter. But in the Borg there is little an individual can do to change things. Moreover, I hated leading a double life. So in September 1984 I resigned as an elder and began my fade.

  There is a better life beyond the Watchtower. But freedom comes with a price. My 20 year marriage ended in divorce, my daughter told me she hated me for leaving the “truth,” my other JW relatives and friends now treated me as if I’d been DFd. Fortunately time heals much. I found new friends, went back to school and got my degree, reestablished relationships with non-JW relatives, my daughter left the JWs and we reconciled, and I married a wonderful woman.

  While everyone’s situation is different, life is more enjoyable outside the JW curtain.
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  44

  The first of many 2013 District Conventions is over . . .

  by bats in the belfry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was it worth attending?.

  is your survival more sure now?.

  which part of gods word is truth!

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  Athanasius

  Since all the members of the NWT translating committee are dead, getting a revision will be difficult. But then again the GB could hire a medium to channel Fred Franz to guide the task.

  Unlike the Revised Standard Version Bible which was first published in 1946 and totally revised 50 years later as the New Revised Standard Version, the NWT has seen little updating. The NWT still uses vocabulary of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries rather than 21st Century English, no doubt courtesy of Fred Franz who completed his education in 1913 and then spent the rest of his life at the Watchtower monastery in Brooklyn, isolated from the real world.
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  8

  Check this out!!!

  by likeabird in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  we all know how the wt likes to go on about how the church would prevent the common person from reading the bible, wanting to keep everyone in the dark, well, they seem to have conveniently missed out a good part of history in the process.. .

  notice how what this book on the history of literacy campaigns says on church involvement in encouraging people to read the bible seems to have been completely overlooked in wt publications:.

  in the case of sweden, a church law of 1686 required children, farm hands, and maid servants to learn to read and see with their own eyes what god bids and commands in his word.

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  Athanasius

  I've attended several Bible studies coordinated by a RC priest. I also have a Catholic Study Bible. Though I'm not Roman Catholic, I do know that they have a Bible Study program that is much better than any of the Watchtower's so called Bible study meetings. Perhaps the medieval church surpressed Bible study but that is not the case today.

  The RC Church has a food pantry and other programs to help the poor and unemployed, something the Watchtower has never done for those in need. My guess is the JWs view charity as giving away free Watchtower publications.
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  10

  warning to the WATCHTOWER weary: the way of the july wt is wrong: because

  by prologos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when you sum those articles up, it is about more boasting, more control and.

  when one looks at the time of greatest increase, it was in the 60s 70, when there was.

  a sharing of power through the rotating overseer arrangement and .

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  Athanasius

  The 1970s was like a Watchtower Vatican II for JWs. I was an elder back then and remember some of the open Bible discussions we had in the friends' homes. Many of us used the New English Bible rather than the NWT as the NEB was easier to understand. Had Ray Franz been allowed to continue the needed reforms the Org. would be a much different religion than it is today and I might not have left in 1984. But the reactionaries won out, reform was stopped, Ray was DFd, and the purges that followed caused liberal elders like myself to see there was no future in JWism and depart.

  Hopefully what happened in the World Wide Church of God will eventually take place in the Watchtower.
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  30

  I was a Jehovah's Witness in a different religion

  by free2beme in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i recently had a very long conversation with my mother, about what jehovah's witnesses teach and believe now.

  while i could gleam ideas and thoughts, that kind of worked with the religion i once called home.

  more often then not, i had to come to a extreme conclusion.

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  Athanasius

  I agree that the JW organization of the 1950s and 60s was very different from the present structure. In those days many KHs were rented rooms above the local Pool Hall. Even smoking was tolerated. We also had a lot of extracuricular events that are now prohibited. Then came the 1970s, which started by ushing in some needed reforms. I like to refer to those days as Watchtower Vatican II. Had the liberals on the GB won the power struggle in the lat 70s, JWism would be a much different religion today. Unfortunately the GB hardliners purged Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap, and other liberals from Bethel and reform was replaced with repression.

  Since I resigned as an elder in 1984 and faded, there have been a lot of changes to JW religious structure. Thank God I'm out and don't have to deal with this. But as the JW membership ages and the young leave, the vast majority in the KHs will be the elderly. I feel sorry for these older ones as senior dementia takes its toll on these long time faithful JWs. Will they be DFd because they can't retain the new FDS change and still teach the old interpretation?