Posts by Athanasius

35

who has actually read the entire Bible?

by losingit in

no matter how many times i've tried, i just couldn't get through the whole thing.

you know, there were always those reminders to read the bible, have a personal study, go out in service, and.... the other two of the five things we were supposed to do i already forgot.

so, i constantly felt guilty that i just had no interest.

Athanasius

Though I was raised in the JW religion and had the complete NWT in one volume since 1961, I didn't read the Bible from cover to cover until 1970 when I purchased a copy of the recently published New English Bible. The NWT was such a poor translation that I found it painful to read. But the NEB was easy to read and it took me less than a year to read from Genesis to Revelation. The NEB also included the Deuterocanonical Books, so I read these too.

Others in our congregation also found the NEB a joy to read. One brother liked the NEB so much that when he had the Bible reading in the TMS, he used it in place of the NWT. That didn't go over well with the hardline elders, but since I was the TMS overseer at the time, I let him get away with it. Later there was a Watchtower article that warned against using Bible versions other than the NWT. But I ignored the Watchtower and continued to use other Bible versions for my personal study. But this was a wake up call as I couldn't see why we were required to use an inferior Bible version when there were so many superior Bible Translations available.

6

Total Donations

by turtleturtle in

jw
friends

was just calculating how much $ i had given to the local cong & wt over the period of about 10 years.

28,000 us baby!

ouchie!

Athanasius

I was raised in the JW religion, but from age 18 to 38 I probably dropped less than $200 in the contribution box. I figured that the money I spent on gas for FS, hotels for conventions, and 12 years of voluteer work as an elder was enough.

64

What was YOUR wake-up call before you left the JW´s organization?

by Mr Fool in

what was your wake-up call(s) before you left the jw s organization?

.

Athanasius

It was a number of things that caused me to wake up. I served as an elder from 1972-1984. During that time we saw the liberal reforms of Watchtower Vatican II replaced with the repression of the 1980s and Witch Hunts for “apostates.” Of course being an elder you have a front seat to observe all the politics that goes on in the congregation, and it was obvious that the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with the appointment of elders or MSs.

Then in 1982 while preparing a Public Talk on the Trinity the outline referred to a Watchtower, which I consulted to get a better grasp of the subject. This Watchtower quoted from J.N.D. Kelly’s Early Christian Doctrines, and I happened to have a copy in my library. But I found that the Watchtower quoted Kelly out of context. Be suspicious whenever the Watchtower uses the ellipsis in quoting a non-JW source. In fact I found more quotations taken out of context to support the Watchtower’s anti-Trinitarian doctrine. It was this discovery of the Watchtower’s scholastic dishonesty that set off more alarm bells. By 1983 I had serious doubts about the JW religion.

But in the spring of 1984 I read COC, and this confirmed that the Watchtower was not God’s organization and my resignation as an elder and my exit from the Watchtower cult soon followed.

10

I'm not sure why... (Comparing presidents of the US to Watchtower presidents)

by slimboyfat in

but lyndon johnson often reminds me of rutherford.

is there anything to that comparison?

i gather that johnson had a very fiery temper and was disliked by many around him; drinked heavily too, was a womaniser, no stranger to dirty tricks, and was fond of power more than idealistism.

Athanasius

The Watchtower presidents seemed to be more like the dictators of the former USSR. Russell was the Lenin of the Watchtower movement. Rutherford was the JW Stalin, who purged the party of the Old Bolsheviks Russellites and created a more militant movement. Knorr was the Borg's Khrushchev, who modified the extremism of the Rutherford era and modernized the movement. Freddy was the Watchtower Brezhnev, whose regime repealed the reforms of the 1970s and ushered in the new repression. Maybe there will be a Watchtower Gorbachev who will preside over the Watchtower's collapse.

6

So 144,000 will go to Heaven? Is this to be taken literally even though......

by I_love_Jeff in

we have something within their own literature stating otherwise?.

"apocalypse, or revelation, is the name of the last book in the bible, written toward the end of the first century c.e.

in view of the prophetic nature and highly symbolic language of this book, the adjective apocalyptic came to be applied to a form of literature that began long before the bible book of revelation was written.

Athanasius

If you weren't able to find an amendment to the 1999 Watchtower teaching, Jeff, that means that it hasn't been repealed and is still current "truth."

6

So 144,000 will go to Heaven? Is this to be taken literally even though......

by I_love_Jeff in

we have something within their own literature stating otherwise?.

"apocalypse, or revelation, is the name of the last book in the bible, written toward the end of the first century c.e.

in view of the prophetic nature and highly symbolic language of this book, the adjective apocalyptic came to be applied to a form of literature that began long before the bible book of revelation was written.

Athanasius

It only becomes old light if a later Watchtower publishes a retraction adjustment indicating that the brothers had the wrong understanding of the Scripture (even though that's what the GB taught them) so the new Watchtower is correcting their mistaken beliefs.

64

2 she-bears kill 42 children

by confusedandalone in

jw
friends

we all remember this passage vividly: from there elisha went up to bethel.

while he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.

"go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!

Athanasius

The Watchtower as usual picks a couple of verses from the Tanach and applies it to the JWs. 2 Kings2:23-24 must have been in the Watchtower outline, Separation of Powers, as I recall our CO making the same point, also some 40 years ago.

But we must remember that the Tanach, or Old Testament, is a Jewish book. The Rabbis study the whole book and don't cherry pick verses out of context like the Watchtower. Moreover, if one reads 2 Kings 2:19-22 it puts the bear incident in a different perspective. Elisha had healed the waters of the town which had an economic effect on youth employment. The Soncino Books Of The Bible, Kings, page 175 says this about the angry youth who mocked Elisha: "They were angry at having lost their means of earning their livelihood, which until now had been to supply the town with sweet drinking water." So Elisha was as popular with these kids as a CEO who closed the local factory, laid off all the employees, and transferred the jobs overseas.

Unfortunately I don't have it handy right now, but another Jewish commentary said that the Hebrew word translated "little boys" in the NWT can also mean teenagers. So situation was more threatening than dealing with a group of Kindergarten kids as the Watchtower would have us believe. Since there was no unemployment insurance or job training programs back then, one can understand why these young men were angry. How were they going to make their chariot payments without a paying job? Being unemployed wouldn't impress the Israelite girls either.

But the moral of the story is that should you lose your job, if you don't want to be eaten by bears, don't insult a baldheaded man.

183

Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society

by AndersonsInfo in

http://gilmermirror.com/bookmark/23272594/article-extreme%20shunning#.ufwjurllscm.facebook.

extreme shunningthe gilmer mirror.

its time to outlaw extreme shunning in modern society by: richard e. kelly .

Athanasius

Right on Barbara.

Educating the public is the key to ending the Watchtower shunning practices, especially here in the US where the Borg gets most of their donations.

34

Freemason Wilbur Ross... buying back Watchtower assets for the Rothschild family

by Calebs Airplane in

freemason wilbur ross, a well-connected banking tycoon with strong ties to the rothschild family has just bid on some watchtower buildings in brooklyn... is the watchtower returning assets to their mother organization?.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/ross_for_jehovah_witnesses_bldgs_komlwtyitfqj3e0ly5fsmk.

also, please view this fairly recent interview with forbes magazine... seems carefully scripted on both ends.... http://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyabenedicto/2011/01/31/wilbur-ross-on-the-economy/.

Athanasius

My grandfather was a Mason and though I never joined, I did attend one of their open house gatherings. However, I didn't notice any conspiritorial activity, just a group of guys having a good time. But I've been told that if you want to get ahead in business, join the Masons.

31

I can't find any bibles...seems to be a shortage...

by Legacy in

howdy,.

i have been trying to get 4 bibles for some folks i know who use to be jw's...not sure if they are returning but i'll do my part...can anyone shed some light or let me know where i can call to get bibles....patterson says there is a shortage, i've asked around to different halls in different states.. could it be because of jw.org ?.

take care,.

Athanasius

Hi Legacy. You might try the Salvation Army, St. Vincent DePaul, and Goodwill Thrift stores, as they always have a few NWTs in their second hand book sections, some in mint condition. Of course you could follow your own advice and call Watchtower headquarters and ask a staff member why they let the English NWT go out of print.

Regarding a revised NWT, I think Slimfatboy is right on. The foreign language NWTs are not translated from the original languages like most foreign language Bibles, but are translated from the English NWT. If the Watchtower is too cheap to employ competent scholars to translate their foreign language NWTs from the original Hebrew and Greek, then they won't go to the expense of revising the non-English NWTs to agree with a revised NWT English version. And since the Borg requires conformity, no revision on the horizon.

Since we're speculating about why the NWT is out of stock, here's another possibility. Freddy Franz completed the NWT in 1960, and with minor revisions, the JW Bible has kept Freddy's peculiar renderings and late 19th Century wording. In fact some of the language and terminology of the NWT was obsolete at the time it was first published. So an NWT in modern English is needed if the JWs want to understand their own Bible.

However, 40 years ago the Watchtower released THE BIBLE IN LIVING ENGLISH, translated by Stephen Byington. The BLE was a much better translation than the NWT, but do to an agreement with Byington's estate, the Watchtower wasn't allowed to edit Byington's work to fit JW beliefs. But what if the Watchtower acquired a manuscript similar to Byington's work that was written in 21st Century English, but with the proviso that the Borg could make adjustments to the translation to fit the JW theological bias? This solves two of the Borg’s problems.

1. All JWs will need to donate to obtain a copy of this new Bible. The cash flow improves.

2. Like other churches, the JWs now have a modern English Bible that they can sort of understand.