I was having a discussion with a guy I worked with, and giving him the spiel about "every design has a designer" so there must be a God. I was giving the same examples I always used i.e. the watch, the house, etc. and how since humans were much more complex we most definitely had to have a designer. He then just simply asked me "So who then created God?"
I did not turn me into an atheist, but it definitely caused me pause and made me realize that my argument was not as airtight and simple as I thought and was taught. I also wondered why that simple question had never occurred to me before. I never used that illustration again, and the question stuck with me for a long time.
Axel
Axelspeed
JoinedPosts by Axelspeed
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19
When you were a JW, did anyone ask you a question that caused you to doubt?
by Victorian sky inno dotrinal question could shake me, but it was a personal one, out in service that started my initial doubts.
a man asked me: 'are you really happy?
' i couldn't say, 'no, i'm miserable' but i thought it was a powerful question, anyone else asked something that really shook them?
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Axelspeed
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The end is close! - Look at the pictures! Hilarious
by truth_about_the_truth inhere is a chain email that i got that has been circulating among the jws.. you have to be kidding me right?.
fw: something to think about wow!!!!!.
this is quite interesting seeing the progression of the stone hitting the false religious babylonish image at the base.
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Axelspeed
LOL! very good JH.
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Axelspeed
I find this whole Gnostic area very interesting to say the least, and would explain a few things for me. This coupled with learning a little more about the Semitic system of mythology goes a long way in my own 'de-mystification of religion'.
btw...if anyone happened to catch the remake of the Ten Commandments (I only caught the second half), it seemed to portray the Yahweh god in a way closer aligned with the OT text...very demanding with a very short fuse. There was one scene after they defeated a rival tribe (Amalekites I believe) when they were told by Moses to kill everybody, men, women and kids. I you saw it, it spoke for itself.
Axel (of the 'excuse me for getting off topic class')
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WT May 15/06 How important we are
by blindersoff inpage 31. the "empty thing" they keep "muttering," or meditating on, is the continuation of their own sovereignty.
nothing shakes them more than any threat to their rulership.
.. the worldwide preaching of the established kingdom of god done by jehovah's witnesses has become just such a threat to the nations.
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Axelspeed
Really delusional or just lost as to what to write anymore! This is the biggest load of rehashed crap I've read in a while. This is not new. Same old play from the same ole playbook. I can't believe my fam still sit through this.
You have to have a swig of some really special kool-aid to write this sh#t and make it sound like you really believe it.
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worst Bookstudy book
by darth frosty inwhat is the book you liked the least studying at the bookstudy?
for me it was the isaiah books.
side question which book did you like the best?
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Axelspeed
The main thing I remember about the Babylon book as a kid is thinking "its thicker than the other books so it must be important and hard to understand". After all, it had its own separate booklet with the questions for study.
Mixed in there was a series of books that covered the whole spectrum of the rainbow. Its a blur now.
Axel
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If Jehovah does not demand human sacrifice.......?
by Gill inif jehovah does not demand human sacrifice, then why does he demand that jws die instead of taking blood transfusions?
isn't that human sacrifice?
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Axelspeed
Thanks! Actually, it really has much more to do with a policy that makes no sense to begin with than any supposed brilliance on my part.
Axel
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JWs as spouses for "worldly" people
by greendawn indo you think a jw man or woman would make a better spouse for someone compared to a "wordly" person?
not that many jws would want to marry non jws but it would be interesting to discuss such an issue to see what comes up.
some may argue that a jw spouse is more likely to be loyal and gentle but there are also many pitfalls with jws.
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Axelspeed
In 1950 maybe. And loyal to who? Is this loyalty based on love for the individual or because the WT says its the right and proper thing to do? Let not even get into the manipulation of winning the "worldling" over without a word. Loyal and gentle are adjectives that could be applied to alot of animals. Personally, I'd take someone with a thought, their own opinion, and a feisty sense of humor anyday. Axel
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If Jehovah does not demand human sacrifice.......?
by Gill inif jehovah does not demand human sacrifice, then why does he demand that jws die instead of taking blood transfusions?
isn't that human sacrifice?
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Axelspeed
So cuetec06, if a person has an organ transplant, would that be introducing something foreign into the body?
Axel -
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worst Bookstudy book
by darth frosty inwhat is the book you liked the least studying at the bookstudy?
for me it was the isaiah books.
side question which book did you like the best?
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Axelspeed
Best:Greatest Man (relatively speaking): I really started to see the disconnect between the gospel and what was being practiced by the WT. I could see a closer resemblance to the pharisees that anything close to what Jesus taught.
Worst:Isaiah Books: the most boring drivel I have ever studied from the WT. I didn't stick around for part 2. Everything was about 1919 and everything bad = apostate Christendom, everything good = WT. Not even good pictures to keep you interested. The Revelation book runs a close second, but at least it had pictures.
Axel
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BURN DOWN THE KINGDOM HALLS!!
by nicolaou infirstly, do not burn down the kingdom halls!
i'm sure you can tell the difference between an attention grabbing topic title and a genuine call to arson.
i am not advocating illegal behaviour and neither would anyone associated with this site.. my question is; just how far would you go?
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Axelspeed
Now that we're out and we don't acknowledge their self appointed authority, it is easy to put such bullies in their place. ; They're not used to someone standing up to them and they really don't know what to do when someone verbally smashes their brains in.
Very true. On a personal level, I don't have desire to go the physical route. Its just not worth it, and feeds right into what most JWs want and need and thrive on to make them feel they are fulfilling some prophecy "so the end must be close"-- persecution.
We are already winning this war. The WT is hanging itself with its own words. The information now available, especially on the internet, combined with the growing apathy and depression in the JW ranks, is having impact already. "Burning something down" would change everything. The apathy would evaporate. Some might leave, but most would catch fire again, and the ones on the fence would run to mother fearing the big A was on the way.
I believe the best strategy is to live well and be available when a person is ready. Sometimes it may appear otherwise, but remember these are not happy people. They may fake it in front of you, and even fool themselves into thinking they are peddling their way to happiness. But it is all pretense. They may not even realize why they are unhappy, but they will only see it when they are ready and courageous enough to take a honest reassessment of everything that touches their lives, including the JW religion. Once a persons knows the truth about the Truth, and they still choose not to see it, its their choice. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.
I believe the worst I could wish on the JWs who are jerks or corrupt and cruel elders is for them to hang on to whatever strands of JWism they can. And as as the credibility of the WT erodes to next to nil, they are forced to look back on their own lives at the very end realizing they wasted it on a falsehood. If a person doesnt want to see they light, I say let them be until they are choking on watchtowers (figuratively of course). Destroying the credibility of the WT is the key. The individuals are just victims (as we once were) and only acting on what they have been misled and manipulated to believe. But for those who already know its false and still perpetuate it....I say stay...cause I want to be there to watch them choke on the words as the credibility of their real god the WT crumbles.
I know a JW on the Liaison Committee who I've known since I was a kid. I know him too be extremely intelligent and I had always valued his opinion. We one day had an in depth discussion on the blood issue. I ask him questions he was not able to answer rationally and still appear credible. He knew that I knew that he was much too intelligent to really believe the bs that was coming out of his mouth. He didnt really believe it and it showed in his eyes, but what was he going to say. I still like the guy, but I lost a lot of respect for him that day. When we see each other, we are still cordial and speak, but the aura he held for me is gone. He probably will never leave...too much invested.
I tell this story to say that there are plenty of these types in JWland. I am not after really after them (they are the ones who will live with it), only the belief system that controls and imprisons so many into this fetal position of a state. When the WT has no further credibility, and a person chooses to stay...I say have at it.
Axel