Pole

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Posts by Pole

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  32

  What does your desktop wallpaper look like?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are so many to choose from over the net.

  i usually use the basic wallpapers that windows xp provide.. i love using "azul" wallpaper to remind me of the summer, since our summers don't last long.. .

  this time of year i turn to the "autumn" wallpaper with the nice colored leaves.. .

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  Pole

  My current desktop image is one of myself bowing to the ancient Persian idols. Anyone more apostate than me, huh?
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  239

  Watchtower Gives Up Explaining 607 BCE Date!

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a very important observation, that the watchtower has not tried to explain in print why 607 bce is the year for the destruction of jerusalem for the last 17 years!!!.

  all that the watchtower has done over most of the last two decades is to repeat over and over the year "607bce" in its publications as if it is an unquestioned fact!.

  the last time an explaination for the year was attempted by the watchtower was in 1988 when the "insight" volumes were published, but since then, no explaination for the validity of the year has appeared in print.. this must mean something, but what?

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  Pole

  Narkissos,
  
  :What I did not find is how to save a Word file as a picture...
  
  The easiest way I can think of is: increase the font and do "print screen" (there should be a special key for it on your Frenchy keyboard). Then, open up Paint, press control+v.
  This should paste in the image of the entire screen, so you'll need to cut out the part of the picture which contains the hebrew text. Open a new paint image and paste in the piece that you've just cut out.
  
  Finally, save the image as jpg or gif you you want to post it on the web.
  
  Alternatively you can use a more sophisticated image editor to "crop" the image.
  
  Pole
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  87

  What was Jesus implying...........................

  by defd in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  at john 10:30 jesus said " i and the father are one" what was he implying?

  was it a claim to be almighty god?

  what is your thoughts and why?

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  Pole

  (1) The apparently poor quality of much NT Greek by unified standards (even taking into account the differences between classical, Hellenistic and koine Greek) by no means implies that this sort of Greek was not the authors' mother tongue. I guess the simple Greek of "John"'s Gospel might have been native to many people in Asia Minor by the end of the 1st century.

  
  I was taking the extreme traditional position which included the semitic identity of the authors.
  

  (2) Even if Greek wasn't the authors' mother tongue this doesn't mean that a conjectural retroversion in any other language would help. There have been many attempts to do that and they are rarely convincing.

  
  I'm not sure what you mean by "conjectural retroversion", so I don't know what to think ;-). Sorry.
  

  (3) If the "true meaning" of the text somehow relies on the unique connection between Greek and the author's supposed mother tongue, it follows that this meaning was lost to the contemporary Greek readers worldwide.

  
  Yes, that's basically what I meant. There may have been regular cross-linguistic transfer, but there may have been some subtle idiolectic interference. In either case the details of the author's intended meaning were lost to the contemporaries and all te more to us (assuming he was even perfectly linguistically conscious of what he was writing).
  

  It is very clear that this was never an Aramaic or Hebrew conversation.

  
  I repeat part of my earlier comment here: "from what you wrote I gather the Greek of the Gospels (or at least of John) comes across as native (...)".
  Pole
  (You don't need to reply, I was just making it clear that I'm perfectly ready to accept your arguments in this matter)
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  60

  My Escape

  by Joel Wideman in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my mother was roman catholic and, it turns out, mentally ill. she was rushed into marriage when my father got her pregnant with me.

  he was also catholic, a sailor, and an alcoholic.. .

  when my father was going to be sent to vietnam, my mother threatened to kill me and herself.

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  Pole

  Through the next few years, I had horrible nightmares about Satan, which led to my insomnia (which I still suffer from, despite learning the real nature of nightmares). Whenever there was something said during the public talks that I found Orwellian (and there was a lot during this period) I became afraid of MY OWN THOUGHTS. This internal conflict began causing me physical pain.

  
  
  I can relate to that.
  
  Welcome to the board, Joel!
  
  Pole
• 
  87

  What was Jesus implying...........................

  by defd in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  at john 10:30 jesus said " i and the father are one" what was he implying?

  was it a claim to be almighty god?

  what is your thoughts and why?

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  Pole

  The point is, the emphatic, absolute use of ego eimi is specific to the Gospel of John. You don't find it in the other Gospels -- where ego eimi only occurs in the very trivial sense of "it's me," which fully suits the context and doesn't call for any "deeper" explanation. The Gospel of John, on the other hand, is a thoroughly Greek work, with a number of puns and double entendre which only make sense in Greek. We are dealing with what the Greek-speaking author meant when he put this characteristic use of ego eimi repeatedly on Jesus' lips -- and to get it we have to turn to the Greek Bible (LXX), especially 2nd Isaiah. To put it more bluntly, if there was a historical Jesus he most probably never said a single word of what we now read in the Fourth Gospel. So what he might have said in Aramaic (which, btw, is not "a hebrew dialect" but a distinct Semitic language with several dialects) is pointless as far as the exegesis of the Gospel of John is concerned.

  
  
  That sounds more like the linguistic reality of the Gospels. I also like to think that even if "John", "Mathew", "Luke", and "Mark" were the real authors of the Gospels (which is only an assumption based on the tradition), then Greek wasn't their mother tongue. And if wasn't their mother tongue, then we can't read too much into the "deeper, hidden" prophetic or theological meanings of their translations of Jesus' Aramaic sayings. Or at least we can't depend on every single word translated into their second or third language to make profound theological points (like the etymlogy of parousia, tenses/aspects, etc.).
  
  But this argument is needless since from what you wrote I gather the Greek of the Gospels (or at least of John) comes across as native or at least as heavily corrected by some Greek scribes.
  
  Let's face it: if we assume that Jesus spoke Arameic and his words were translated by the traditional biblical authors into Greek, then we can only realistically discuss the most general, translinguistic and transcultural meanings of Jesus' sayings as they are recorded in the Bible. Such as: "Love thy God and thy neighbor". But then, that's enough of "good religious stuff" for reasonable Christians to keep them going. Good for them. At least they don't have to constantly fool themselves.
  
  Pole
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  31

  Now they "Excommunicate"??

  by Lilycurly in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  some of you might had read that in one of my other post...my father, who is the only jw in the family, came up with the word "excommunicated" when talked about disfellowshipement.

  now, nobody here seems to have any idea what this is all about.

  he seems pretty certain that it's now the proper word to use.

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  Pole

  :The Brooklyn Inquisition has met and has determined _____ to be unfit to sell our line of fairy tale books and fantasy magazines.
  
  LOL. Good one, lawrence.
  
  Pole
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  172

  TESTING the results of two different ways of thinking

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mankind has had a pretty good track record of tackling the problems of life on earth.

  different folks have tried different strokes.

  you might say that life has been the crucible for testing an idea as to efficacy and the legacy of any idea is how well it worked.. .

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  Pole

  :You mean the heavy stone DOESN'T fall faster than the lighter stone??? I'm shocked!!
  
  Nope, how about Aristotle's genus-differentia categorization scheme? How about a prototype-based one instead? What do y' think? If I'm hijacking the thread now, just tell me.
  
  Pole
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  172

  TESTING the results of two different ways of thinking

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mankind has had a pretty good track record of tackling the problems of life on earth.

  different folks have tried different strokes.

  you might say that life has been the crucible for testing an idea as to efficacy and the legacy of any idea is how well it worked.. .

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  Pole

  It is in no way my aim to hijack this thread. With that said I realize that you have me at a disadvantage when it comes to life experience and command of language. However in my humble opinion your engagement on this board seems to have its root in the sharing of your ideological viewpoint for your own edification. Rarely do people disagree with the things you have to say. I imagine that this general response is a boon to the positions that you construct and share. My only evidence of this is that you continue to share. This leads me to a question: Why do I never see you support others in crisis? Those leaving an organization that we have been taught to call mother could surely benefit from your long standing expertise. From viewing the threads you have posted, I know I have. A further question: "Why do you seem to assign the majority of your energies posting to things that in are in essence self reinforcing or in defense of your established position? Why does it seem that your energies are not devoted to aiding others, but aiding your own ends? Perhaps my interpretation is mine alone and stems from my own reflexive viewpoints and not your reflective position. If that is the case, please accept my apology. Please understand that I mean this with the highest respect and simply want to understand.

  
  Coolhandluke,
  Yes, you have hijacked the thread in the most irrelevant way. You have nothing to say on topic, so you seem to pass a ridiculous judgment on Terry. Dude, it's only a stupid discussion board! Sigh.
  Terry, I think you should refrain from speaking your mind if you want to reach out for organizational privileges. Ya' makin' the bruvas stumble, man. LOL.
  BTW, I think Aristotle got it wrong most of the time! What say thou?
  Pole
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  151

  Questions for Jgnat

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jgnat, .

  you had some points that i missed in a previous thread.

  here are my answers to your charges.

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  Pole

  :What you credited to AlanF is actually Job's words, which you discard as "meaningless" and "fishy" rhetoric (much like his "friends" did).
  Lol. Rex, you have apparently been reading so much about logical fallacies and "fishy rhetoric" that you can't help misapplying their definitions. This time you seem to have inadvertently bashed what the Bible says in your zeal to defend it. What a joke.
  Cheers,
  Pole
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  34

  Would God permit nuclear war?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  by nuclear war, i don't mean 2 bombs like in japan back in 1945, but something much worse, like half of the population of the us being destroyed in a nuclear conflict.. probably jw's would say, no to the question because they think that their work of salvation is soooo important that god wouldn't permit their destruction..

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  Pole

  :By nuclear war, I don't mean 2 bombs like in Japan back in 1945, but something much worse, like half of the population of the US being destroyed in a nuclear conflict.Silly question IMO. It's totalitarian reasoning. Do you really think the hypothetical God could make such distinctions? What's the moral difference between killing 5 people and 10 people? If god has allowed hundreds of millions to die in the most silly ways imaginable, why should he change his mind in this case? In fact a nuclear explosion is not the worst possible way of dying at all.
  
  It's better to avoid such questions at all if one wants to believe in a personal God with good human-like moral values and any real influence on the material world.
  Pole