Many of the confessions of faith held by various segments of the Christian community have described the true church in the language of the Nicene Creed [fourth century] as the 'one , holy,catholic and apostolic church'. The attributes of the church presented in this formula are biblical concepts.
During the Protestant Reformation of the sixteenth century, controversy arose over the identity of Gods true church. One of the papacys major arguements against the Reformers was that the Church of Rome was the one, holy, catholicand apostolic church. Protestants ,of course denied Rome's claim. But how could one test the claims of opposing religious bodies to be the 'true church'?
Rome for example, interpreted these attributes in institutional terms. 'Unity meant lockstep conformity to the wishes of the hierarchical Roman structure. 'Catholicity' meant the propagation and maintenance of a formal, worldwide organization. 'Holicity' was defined as submission to the teaching of a succession of Roman bishops who claimed to wear the mantle of Peter.
The Reformers , however contended that the attributes of the church could not be properly understood apart from the gospel of Jesus Christ. The church's real unity, holiness, catholicity and apostolicity, they said, were all rooted in Gods great saving act on Calvary. Therefore, the identity of the true church could be judged by whether or not the marks of the pure preaching of the gospel and the proper administration of baptism and the lords supper [by which the gospel is portrayed] were present in the community. This gospel alone would produce the attributes by which the true church can be known.
The Reformers had recovered a vital truth . The New Testament teaches that the attributes of the true church are soteriological rather than institutional. The church is one because the atonement of Christ has broken down the wall that once separated human beings according to class, race and sex. The church is holy because Christs death has purchased and set apart those who beleive the Gospel, to be Gods chosen people. The church is catholic [ie. universal] because Christs blood has washed away the sins of the whole world and because this gospel is now preached to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. The church is apostolic because its faith and life are grounded soley on the testimony of the apostleswhom Christ appointed to witness and proclaim his saving work
Posts by barry
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13False Religion
by UnDisfellowshipped inbelow is a list of "christian" religions and teachers which, based on what i have read in the scriptures, are not teaching biblical truth.. i welcome all questions and comments.
jehovah's witnesses.
roman catholics.
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barry
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False Religion
by UnDisfellowshipped inbelow is a list of "christian" religions and teachers which, based on what i have read in the scriptures, are not teaching biblical truth.. i welcome all questions and comments.
jehovah's witnesses.
roman catholics.
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barry
Dear Undisfellowshiped,
That site you gave me is actually very factual and I would agree with the majority of the conclusions there but it represents Traditional Adventists. The Church is actually divided between Traditionals, Evangelicals and Theologically liberal groups the Evangelicals can be divided into two groups. An artical by the Christian Research Institute "From Controversy to Crisis is a good read http://web2.airmail.net/billtod/crisda.txt . A link for the official teachings of SDAs is http://brooklawn.org/Beliefs.htm and as an evangelical Adventist my main departure from this document revolves around the heading "Christs Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary" it is interesting to note that the witnesses copyied this doctrine from the Adventists the Adventist version being the date 1844 the witness version 1914. The reason for my dissention here is it interferres with the gospel and is the root of the Adventist perfectionism taught by the traditionals. Barry -
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False Religion
by UnDisfellowshipped inbelow is a list of "christian" religions and teachers which, based on what i have read in the scriptures, are not teaching biblical truth.. i welcome all questions and comments.
jehovah's witnesses.
roman catholics.
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barry
Dear Undisfellowshipped,
You must be quite an authority to know about all those churches. Im a 7 day Adventist and I wonder what type of 7 day Adventist you beleive doesnt preach the gospel. Some groups in the Adventist church are called catholic adventists because they beleive just like the catholics others do beleive the protestant gospel of righteousness by faith just as the protestant reformers did. Any discrepancies in teaching between denominations are covered by the blood of christ and the real church is all of those who trust in the merits of christ irrespective of there denomination. BarryEdited by - barry on 30 December 2002 5:5:10
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27
Benny Hinn
by mike047 indid anyone watch dateline last night?
the expose' on pastor hinn was exactly what i would have expected.
mike
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barry
The Steve Martin movie was called Leap of faith at least it was a good laugh and not as expensive as hinn. Barry
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Christmas and the Cross
by barry intalking about christmas and the cross will stir a debate with any dedicated jw but the same idears can be found in other churches for one my own church the adventists.. the weekend before this last xmas we were told in hushed tones we would be haveing visiters from another adventist church from the other side of canberra.
some saints from this church were haveing problems with all the agenda planned for xmas and were just not happy with xmas trees and presents being given to the kids there for the xmas celebrations.
we were told these people would be worshipping with us where xmas was limited to a sermon about xmas and the kids sung some carols.
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barry
Gday again UR, The reason for some Adventists not likeing crosses in their churches i feel is they just like to be Cultic and different than anyone else. Adventists do have a basic set of beleifs http://www.brooklawn.org/Beliefs.htm but you can question them after all what can they do to you if you dissagree ? ?"You wont be shunned or lose family. I was brought up in the church and i studied with the witnesses. I could join a few churches to me evangelical anglicans have the gospel too and because they dont beleive in all that hell fire I would feel comfortable with them so I dont choose my church as being better than some other and I am a practicing Adventist. Barry
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Christmas and the Cross
by barry intalking about christmas and the cross will stir a debate with any dedicated jw but the same idears can be found in other churches for one my own church the adventists.. the weekend before this last xmas we were told in hushed tones we would be haveing visiters from another adventist church from the other side of canberra.
some saints from this church were haveing problems with all the agenda planned for xmas and were just not happy with xmas trees and presents being given to the kids there for the xmas celebrations.
we were told these people would be worshipping with us where xmas was limited to a sermon about xmas and the kids sung some carols.
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barry
Gday Utopian, There are similar beleifs between Adventists and the JWs the Adventists have 1844 a date for the second comming and the 1914 beleif of the JWs was copied from the adventist doctrine. Also a few adventists are Arian [ hte beleif that jesus was a created being and the holy spirit is a force just as the witnesses beleive Althought most Adventists are trinitarian] The issue with the cross is a bit different than the jw reasons as adventists all beleive jesus died on a cross but some dont like there churches to be decorated by crosses others dont have a problem with it . Christmas is usually celebrated by adventists as in the above post they had xmas trees and gave out presents to the kids at the church thats what offended some of the members. Adventists are not uniform in beleif like the witnesses are. Barry
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131
Last Post - My Most Painful Public Confession
by Amazing inmy most painful confession
note to simon: i will use some expletives, but i hope that they will be retained as this is intended to be an otherwise civil and thoughtful post to all my fellow ex-jws.
please read on, as this is most painful.
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barry
Look after youreself Jim Ill miss all youre good posts. Barry
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Christmas and the Cross
by barry intalking about christmas and the cross will stir a debate with any dedicated jw but the same idears can be found in other churches for one my own church the adventists.. the weekend before this last xmas we were told in hushed tones we would be haveing visiters from another adventist church from the other side of canberra.
some saints from this church were haveing problems with all the agenda planned for xmas and were just not happy with xmas trees and presents being given to the kids there for the xmas celebrations.
we were told these people would be worshipping with us where xmas was limited to a sermon about xmas and the kids sung some carols.
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barry
Talking about Christmas and the Cross will stir a debate with any dedicated JW but the same idears can be found in other Churches for one my own Church the Adventists.
The weekend before this last xmas we were told in hushed tones we would be haveing visiters from another Adventist Church from the other side of Canberra. Some saints from this Church were haveing problems with all the agenda planned for xmas and were just not happy with xmas trees and presents being given to the kids there for the xmas celebrations. We were told these people would be worshipping with us where xmas was limited to a sermon about xmas and the kids sung some carols. Just as a word of explanation Adventists know of the pagan origin of xmas and dont have church on the day of xmas but they do have all the other goodies of xmas.
However these good saints and I have met many, and know how they think may have been happy about the down graded xmas but there is another problem with these types that the church in the south of Canberra is decorated with Crosses while the north Canberra Church has none. Some Adventists dont like the pagan Cross on there Churches and and also beleive they should worship a liveing christ. Also when an Adventist Church is being built the local church votes on if it will be decorated with crosses.
So as you can all see some of the same idosyncrasies can be found in other cults which is probably why I am attracted to this site, and have seen many unholy arguements about xmas , crosses ect. Barry -
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Do Elders need to study?
by Outaservice inyear ago we used to criticize the 'clergy' because we heard that most of them just bought their weekly sermons!
(not true by the way!).
are jw elders any different?
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barry
My dad is an Adventist lay preacher and he allways gives his sermons from his own research and doesnt to even tell anyone what he will be preaching about I used to think the witnesses would be doing the same. Barry
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The Memorial?
by Nickey ini'm a newbie here.
but not a newbie to being a jw.
i was raised as one.
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barry
Jesus said to partake till I come and since everyone knows Jesus came in 1914 the JWs shouldnt be doing it at all should they . Barry