Alright I've found Trinitarianism, Arianism, and Modalism to have been mentioned. So I'm going to toss in a particular gnostic heresy for your consideration. That the man Jesus was the vessel for the Heavenly Redeemer. Not the God-Man but the nexus point: God in Man. Then upon Jesus' death he was raised up and given a glory on par with the Logos. The appeal coming from the additional slant that this same hope is open to all humans.
Midget-Sasquatch
JoinedPosts by Midget-Sasquatch
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66
Is Jesus Christ God?
by UnDisfellowshipped inissue of august 22nd, 1976, pages 23-26, says this: .
about this, the watchtower issue of april 4, 1976 said this: .
"christ jesus, the only one who "fully knows" the father" .
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Is There Truly Any "Underground Reform" Going On?
by minimus innot an organized type, at least.
as an elder, i would try to bend the organization's rules so as to be more moderate and give the "sheep" a little more comfort.
but no elder or group of people could organize such a group and stay within the watchtower's (kingdom hall's) walls.
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Midget-Sasquatch
Minimus
Yeah, they definitely keep alert to anything they think might take away from Mommy's "due" honour. The points I left out were specifically about needing to work with and to listen to the FDS in order to be in good standing with God, and how doing good (mainly by material support) to the FDS was a key criterion of judgement.Jgnat I'm with you. The only movement that works is the one heading for the exits.
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Is There Truly Any "Underground Reform" Going On?
by minimus innot an organized type, at least.
as an elder, i would try to bend the organization's rules so as to be more moderate and give the "sheep" a little more comfort.
but no elder or group of people could organize such a group and stay within the watchtower's (kingdom hall's) walls.
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Midget-Sasquatch
Puhleeze! There is nothing beyond maybe the dreams of a handful of people in absolutely ineffectual positions. The "movement" cannot thrive within that high control system. By keeping it quiet and underground, it automatically defeats its main reason for being: to voice alternative opinions and questions.When I gave two public talks and I simply spent more time on certain sections of the outline and ignored a few other points, (nothig overtly heretical), it was quickly noticed by the BOE. Two of them grilled me on why I chose to stray from the timing, and why I left out some "very important" points about the FDS. They said that I should consider myself as a waiter serving the dish and not the chef.
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John 10:15
by LittleToe injoh 10:15 as the father knoweth me, even so know i the father: and i lay down my life for the sheep.
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something suddenly struck me, while reading the aforementioned verse.. if the father knows everything (ginosko - to know "absolutely") and hence knows jesus intimately; how is it possible for jesus to know the father in the same way if he's merely an angel or "perfect" human?
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Midget-Sasquatch
LittleToe
I'm with you you on there being no basis for excluding so many believers from that same hope. What you mentioned was exactly the shared trait of divinty that I was thinking about. That God, Jesus and the 144,000 are the only beings that are immortal. The WTS has no other way around it but to concede that (I'll better qualify it this time) extremely limited ...... idea of theosis.
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John 10:15
by LittleToe injoh 10:15 as the father knoweth me, even so know i the father: and i lay down my life for the sheep.
.
something suddenly struck me, while reading the aforementioned verse.. if the father knows everything (ginosko - to know "absolutely") and hence knows jesus intimately; how is it possible for jesus to know the father in the same way if he's merely an angel or "perfect" human?
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Midget-Sasquatch
Why do you limit your comments to non-christian mystics?
Ooops, that was an old habit creeping up. To avoid any trouble while growing up JW, I'd always be sure to talk about any novel ideas as being foreign to (the WT's version of) christianity. Needless to say, all of you here and your open-mindedness are much appreciated.
Besides the Gospel of John, there are also some of Paul's writings that talk about this mystical attainment of glory and fullness.
But as I understand it, 2Peter was a pro-orthodox letter, apparently even having some anti-gnostic things to say. So what was the author saying at 2 Peter 1:4 about theosis?
In the Basic English Bible it says:
"And through this he has given us the hope of great rewards highly to be valued; so that by them we might have our part in God's being, and be made free from the destruction which is in the world through the desires of the flesh."
That translation sides nicely with the kind of union talked about in John.
In the New Revised Standard Version it says:
Thus he has given us, through these things, his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of lust, and may become participants of the divine nature.
Is the author's concept closer to that of the WT's where there's a limited sharing in the divine nature? -
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John 10:15
by LittleToe injoh 10:15 as the father knoweth me, even so know i the father: and i lay down my life for the sheep.
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something suddenly struck me, while reading the aforementioned verse.. if the father knows everything (ginosko - to know "absolutely") and hence knows jesus intimately; how is it possible for jesus to know the father in the same way if he's merely an angel or "perfect" human?
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Midget-Sasquatch
I know virtually no Greek, so I can't significantly contribute in those aspects of the discussion. But I must agree with those of you who see a mystical stance in the Gospel of John.
I'd say that any non christian mystic who reads that Gospel will also say that the message is not just that the Son, but that humans too, are sharers in the divine nature. I wonder though about the absoluteness of those mystical experiences. I realize that many experiences claim just that, they've merged with everything. But just how much can we limited humans currently really "know" about the Father or that Ultimate Reality? I often link "knowing" with a high degree of "certainty". Could that be an important purpose and message of these mystical experiences? Not so much knowing absolutely everything there is to know about the nature of God, the Son and everything, as we now are anyways, but to possess that high degree of certainty of their actually being?
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Mrs Kwin got a job offer, so we're moving.
by kwintestal inmrs kwin has really wanted to get into digital imaging and has taken several courses over the last couple years for it.
well, on the weekend she got a job offer from her aunt.
her aunt is starting up a company and needs someone to do just that!
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Midget-Sasquatch
Finally, some good news for a change. Seems like everytime I'm absent for a while something sad goes down. But, the more compatriots the better! I bet your Aunt is overjoyed. I hope the Mrs really enjoys her new job.
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Masonic Infiltration of this board
by stillajwexelder inthere are freemasons infiltrating this board.
i have positive proof.
all be careful
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Midget-Sasquatch
Who controls the British pound?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do! We do!Who robs cavefish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!All this talk has gotten that little ditty into my head. Its some of the song from the Simpson's episode where Homer stumbles onto and joins the Springfield's secret society "The Stone Cutters". I loved that one.
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WT Study on Education - How did it go?
by Inquisitor ini didn't attend the meeting today and i haven't spoken to any fellow witnesses about the study yet.
anyone care to share how their meeting went?
any interesting comments made for or against the wts policy on higher education?
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Midget-Sasquatch
Thanx for your posts Scully and Inquisitor. That brother never did have much tact, but you can count on him to always tell you what he really thought. :)
In fairness to him, I don't believe he was trying to publically put me down personally and on purpose. He was just very eager to validate the teachings of his Mommy. My story was just what he wanted to hear so he seized on it.
FinallyFree
Yeah, I do see that he had a valid point and so do you. I should stop sulking and see how I may work harder and smarter to be more of a success. It was just offputting to me because I clearly saw myself as a convenient casefile for the Borg to point to. I should take that valid statement though and work smarter personally so that it won't apply to me and so that I won't be an example they'd love to mention.
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Nate
by Narkissos innate merit popped in a few weeks ago.
many of us quickly came to enjoy his fascinating experience, original ideas, bright writing skills, and sensitive approach of people.
i did.. nate told us he is going to have major open heart surgery next thursday.
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Midget-Sasquatch
I hope it all goes smoothly for you Nate, and that you'll have a quick recovery. Loved those experiences from your childhood and your other insightful posts. I still get a good chuckle with your bit on Donald Duck.