Posts by Hondo

47

A Fair View of Fred Franz' Translation Abilities

by IW in

i thought these comments on channel c were fair views of fred franz' translation, not to mention a little surprising.

a breath of fresh air.

http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index2.cgi?frames=no&board=main&mode=current&message=21782.

Hondo

We need to keep in mind that there are hundreds of biblical language theologians and scholars that still say that the NWT is a very badly translated/interpreted version of the bible, no matter how well educated, or uneducated, Franz was. Also remember, the Catholic church, irregarless of what anyone thinks about this organization, maintains a very detailed library of biblical interpretations and translations based on history, philosophy, culture, etc., and is continually reviewed and updated based on new archialogical finds, on old information revealing new biblical evidence, etc. This source would have been available to Mr Franz, which I highly doubt he took advantage of. Although I can't say for sure, I doubt that Franz paralleled his translation techniques of the NWT with the practice of hermaneutics (Catholics use this science), which takes into account the above mentioned aspects of life such as culture, history, etc., and should be interlaced with other translation methods when interpreting/translating 2000 year old information. I would think he based his translation efforts solely on his limited language knowledge and most likely "guessed", or used other questionable "biblical" sources, at the way some portion of a phrased or passage should be read (of course taking into accounted, to a good degree, the Watchtower Society's specific doctrine at a particular point in time. In his case circa the 50's.

125

FRESH OFF THE PRESS.... 9/1/06 WT "When a Loved One Leaves Jeh."

by schne_belly in

.

this just in for your reading displeasure......enjoy

.

Hondo

Where is there a article for the opposite situation; when a loved one leaves a loving marriage, christian family, and overall good life for the cult Jehovah Witnesses, destroying relationships and lives? The JW article is such a joke. Poor Mark and Louise, their offspring have decided to live a normal life... yea!

80

BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS Twisting a life-affirming law into death

by Terry in

turning a life affirming rule into a death-dealing policy is an amazing accomplishment.

we can thank the watchtower society for a mindset which makes this possible.. i've gone into great detail before about the watchtower blood policy itself.

it is a blatant and deliberate publicity stunt which takes the rather simple prohibitions of the laws of noah for gentiles on murder .

Hondo

Jehovah makes it clear in leviticus and in acts 15; 28-29 how black and white. do you want it, if it was any clearer it would anger you that he thinks your dumb and it needs to be written word for word. like a childrens book.israelites were thousends of years ahead in their hygiene conditions because god knew that, if people had to drop a dump in the middle of the camp near food things like e coli would kill an unvaccinated population, cholora to! just to name a few of the possibilities. god had standards of cleaness... and washing your hands! how clever! except it isnt its just blatenly sensible!!!

blood carries thousends of diseases, and impurities. its a human fluid and its droplet and what do most severe viruses and diseases come in? DROPLET! and what the quickest way to infect? IV! so you see god was making it very clear that it was unclean. let alone that it represents life. because you just cant live without it can you? the answer is NO! two very good reasons why you should listen to god. youl piss him off and youl get ill most likely.

Superhooper, what the heck are you talking about!!!. It seems you think that every blood transfusion results in something bad, death or otherwise, happening to the blood recipient. Sheeesh, where do you get your info. I am alive today because of a blood transfusion (several pints). My sister works at a large hospitial in Oregon. I asked her what percentage of people died or were otherwise incapacitated because of a blood transfusion. Her answer was 0% percent, at least at her hospital. Granted there are some problems with tainted blood from time to time, but you make it sound like all blood is tainted. Get a life man! There are millions alive today because of the miracle of blood transfusiuon. The JWs are totally wacked out by mis-interpreting the bible in the way they do. Philosophical thoughts and ideas aside, JWs endorse suicide by ebcouraging people to kill themselves by refusing a life saving blood transfusion. You really need to think about your position on this, I mean really think. You are way off base.

33

Breaking up with spouse, why?

by greendawn in

for those that broke up with a boy/girlfriend or a spouse, how do you know that you made the right decision?

Hondo

I have never been a JW. My wife of 20 years was suckered in a few years ago and is now totally engrossed with this group. We divorced back in 2003. Our life as a married couple went from a good marriage to relationship of almost continuous argument. Prior to her involvement we celebrated holidays and participated in everything that she would eventually be told not to partake in. After her involvement, which she kept a secret from me until I found some of her Watchtower and Awake magazines, she would question why I was celebrating Christmas, birthdays, etc. Our marriage/relationship went from very good to virtually non-existance. It seemed she was always at a meeting weekday evenings, doing a study group or cleaning the KH on weekends. It got to the point where being husband and wife and making time to for ourselves was a rare occasion. The only reason we divorced was because she joined the WTBTS/JWs, nothing else. The thought of her leaving or toning down her participation to save our marriage never crossed her mind.

I miss her a lot and still feel very strongly towards her. I look back and think I made the right decision separating from her. Had we remained together it would have been hell for both of us. I do think of her often and wonder if she will ever change; As sad as it is to say, I think not. She was/is going to do what she was/has been dutifully told to do by the WTBTS come hell or high water. She, it seemed, would defend this group with her life if it came to that. I have two children that she tried to indoctrinate in her lieing and deceptive ways. Thank God it did not take.

Take care

27

Witnesses cannot refute the real "TRUTH"

by integ in

jw
friends

no matter what any pompass ass witness says about the religion being the "truth", they cannot refute the simple fact that nothing they have ever predicted has come true.

that's a pretty poor record for gods' chosen people.

oh sure they can point to lame obvious things such as " critical times getting harder to deal with" (even that is debatable), but no hard facts to point to that show they are right, or have ever been.

Hondo

"In 1942, Nathan Knorr gave the speach 'Peace, can it last?'. ; Using Revelation chapter 17, he predicted that the League of Nations would rise again. ; He specifically said that this new organization would rise after WWII. ; This came true." Huh!!! The "general" knowledge of the development and eventual establishment of the United Nations following WWII was not the exclusive "secret" of Nathan Knorr. The United Nations didn't just happened. It was in planning, and well known to many, many people prior to and after 1942. All Knorr was stating during his speach was "common knowledge." Nothing prophetic whatsoever.

78

This Past Sunday My Wife Took Me To The Elders- Part 2

by enlightenedcynic in

thanks for all of the kind words and advice, i appreciate it greatly and will look to use some of it.

a special thank you to both cal and vitty for their pm's which gave me a different perspective to look from.. so the p.o.

meets with us in one of the back rooms and my wife starts to speak.

Hondo

Although I am not a JW, never have been, I can speak from some experience. I saw my wife of 20 years totally morf from a loving woman and mate into a JW robot. Base on your story I think you should strongly consider bailing out now and live a normal a life as you can. I certainly don't know you or your wife, but I think your wife will be "on your case" for the rest of your life if you don't.

I've told my story several times on different active topics on the forum. I am ex-Navy and while at sea (in Japan. My ex-wife was a Japanese National), and the kids in school, they came knocking. The rest is history. She kept her involvement (free bible Study, going to meetings, etc.) a secret from me until I found out by accident (found a watchtower magazine) 9 months after she started. Although she tried (more like play-acted) to be the loving wife, it was quite obvious that her purposes in life now were focused around what the WTBS/JWs wanted her to do, not what she previously did as a loving mother and wife (and she was a very good wife. We had a good life/marriage/family). She started dressing and acting different. Letters to me while at sea were just a listing of bible quotes. After I discovered her involvement she tried her best to get me to sign up, and our children (thank God I did not, nor did I allow the kids to). Several times, on meeting nights, I tried to get her to go out for a nice dinner, or just a night out to a movie or something. Each time she called an elder (I suspect) to get permission, and each time she was told to attend the meeting rather than go out with me, and she did. One night I got angry with her and demanded her and I go out. She said yes, but again called someone (an elder I guess), and no sooner had she hung up the phone she was out the door (literally running) saying something out "dieing spiritually." During these times when I tried to just be a loving husband I felt like I had to get permission from my father first just to go on a date with my wife. Of course all of the holidays we celebrated together as a family were not as they had been in the past, and her participation was totally out of the question. On Saturdays, really my only free day of the week, I would try to set up a picnic, or just a day at the beach. It seemed she always had to clean her KH and be gone the entire day. It's amazing, and still bothers me to no end, that the elders had, and still have I suspect (we were divorced in 2003), total control over her.

Sorry to ramble, but based on what I went through, and you probably know this already, you essentially have two choices; have a normal life as you see fit, or have a life as your wife and the elders see fit. I wish you all the best. Whatever you decide, stay in touch with the good folks on this forum.

27

Has the Kingdom Interlinear Translation been pulled off the shelves

by homme perdu in

i was searching for it at the hall's library and i didnt find a copy.

i also asked the literature department for a copy and they said they werent familiar with the bible.

what is going on?

Hondo

I have a copy of the purple KIT. If I were to bring it out during a conversation with "door knockers", to prove a specific point I was trying to make (essentially to prove them wront), what would they do; what would their reaction be? Leave? Or, would they say that this book is no longer in print and therefore not valid any more? Or, something else? I've read through it, to a degree, and can see where this would cause a lot of problems for them.

75

Infallibility of Scripture

by drew sagan in

one of this biggest teachings present in mostly all christian denominations is the idea that the bible is infallibile.

my question is, where does the bible say this?

i know of many scriptures that point to the idea that what was written was directed by god, but where does the idea that what written is totally without error originate?

Hondo

I think a minor point to keep in mind is that the authorships of most of the books of the NT are not fully known. Who is this John that wrote the book of Revelation? John the Apostle, or a nut job thrown in prison who wrote a really confusion story? Why are three of the gosples so similar (Matt, Mark, and Luke) and one not (John)? Mark and Luke weren't even apostles! How close were they to Jesus and why are they writing about him, or did they get their information second-hand and put together a gosple as best they could? Mostly everything else in the NT is written by Paul and Peter, we think. The preaching of the NT scriptures was pretty much word of mouth up until the late 300AD when the very first bible was published; the Vulgate. Even after this date, there were very few bibles around, and only owned by the church at that time, or the very wealthy, as they had to be hand scribbed. It wasn't until Gutenberg roled around with his printing press that bibles were "mass produced."

Bible Infallibility or believing in Sola Scriptura...Not sure. There are just to many variables over past 2000+ years, both orally and written, that were subject to error(s). Who said what, when and where? Or, I think he or she said this or wrote that, but not sure... Faith and belief in our Lord Jesus is what is important, as several of you have already said. The bible is good reference material, and can certainly be a guide in our lives, some of us to a greater extent, some to a lesser.

21

WHEN YOUR CHILD JOINS A CULT (Mk. 10:29)

by DannyHaszard in

when your child joins a cult

the tide - port harcourt,niger delta,nigeria

... what happens is that cults divide a family that was once.

Hondo

The cult, Jehovah Witnesses, took my wife away from me, destroying our marriage, family and life. They packaged and wrapped her up with their love bombing very nicely. Not knowing a lot about the JW's at the time, and her staunch belief in whatever they told her, cause me to do just everything wrong in trying to keep my marriage and family together. I cannon help but think, almost daily, how a woman (my wife) can take 20 years of marriage and essentially throw it all away. I'm ex-military (Navy) by the way, and I suspect that the good JWs came knocking when the ship I was on was away, kids were in school, maybe the wife a bit lonely and a maybe depressed...and they came. She kept everything a secret from me for the first 7 or 8 months lieing about going out in the evenings, saying she was going to visit friends, when in fact she was attending meetings. I should have known!!!...and kick myself in the butt for now doing things different. I only found out, at the 6 or 7 months mark, by discovering some awake/wathctower magazines she was hidding. I've come to find out that the JWs providing her with her "free bible study" "highly" recommended that she don't tell me or her relatives what she was doing because we all would think she was joing a cult (duhhhh!!!) and be against her doing so. So, 20 years of marriage went down the drain. It may or may not have helped, but I wish I would have known back then what I know now about the JWs and how they work.

Hondo

38

One Watchtower/Catholic comparison...

by Confession in

don't know how many of you have read m. james penton's "apocalypse delayed: the story of jehovah's witnesses.

" honestly it's not what i'd call an "easy read," but it does contain very well researched information.

i enjoyed his recognition of a similarity between the wts and catholicism.

Hondo

lovelylil

Disagree with you again.

While the information you gave is true, my point was that the Catholic Chruch today with its centralized body that interprets all truth for the believers in Christ is not the same "church" that the Apostles began in their time.

*** You are correct, the Catholic Church of today is not the same today as it was 2000 years ago. It has grown obviously to the size it now, 1.2 billion. To say that it is not the same church that Peter and the Apostles began is not correct. Peter, the first Pope, kept the church organization as centralized, and as organized, as possible, given the Roman persecution of the time period he lived, and with the central theme that with faith, grace, and belief in and love of our Lord, we can have eternal life. It was Peter and the Apostles job to orally interpret and preach the words of our lord Jesus Christ during a very tumultuous period of time. As a result of this persecution, Peter was crucified in 67AD and Pope Linus took over, the Pope Anacletus, then Pope Clement, Pope Evaristus, Pope Alexander I, Pope Sixtus, and so forth and so on up to Pope John Paul II, the 264th Pontif. This line of succession from Peter to current Pontif is unbroken, and has been for 2000 years. With each successive Pope the Catholic Church grew, expanded, and became more organized, through good times and bad. Like any other organized body, the Catholic Church started off slowly, painfully slow, but eventually grew by leaps and bounds, primarily after 400AD. Unfortunately, they became too centralized and powerful, which created periods of torment and problems during the middle ages, which the chuch, I'm certain, is not proud of. There were even a few crooked Popes thrown in, 5 to be exact. Martin Luther (the centralization and overall authority of the Pope were main complaints of his) finally had enough in 1516 and went in his own direction.

Hondo