AlmostAtheist

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Posts by AlmostAtheist

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  89

  IDENTITY=Behavior There are no CAUSELESS crimes or innocent evils

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  we often hear it said: love the sinner, but; hate the sin.. we try and reform the child molester.

  we put career criminals through rehabiliation.

  we let the drunk driver off with a fine and a warning over and over until an innocent family is wiped out.. why separate the deed from the doer?

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  AlmostAtheist

  >>I take it you believe in free will. I don't.

  I don't believe in it either, but it occurs to me that I don't think we'd act any differently if we had it. I think we'd only BE different. Weird...

  Dave
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  35

  What "Christian Rock" would you recommend?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was driving along today and passed a church advertising some singing group that is to appear sunday.

  i thought, "man, i hate religious music.

  " it was the "always have" that caught my attention.

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  AlmostAtheist

  OK, well, it was just an experiment. Yeah, I couldn't enjoy it. It reminded me of when I went to an Easter service at a church. This eerie feeling of being around utterly deluded people. (No offense intended, just my opinion/impression)

  Though I must say, THESE guys were pretty awesome:

  

  Dave
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  91

  The Watchtower and Creation

  by AlanF in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it struck me this past year, with respect to jw teachings about the timing of genesis 1, that even in things that really have no impact on what most jws think of as "core doctrine" the watchtower society sticks to its traditions over what the bible says.

  this was again brought home in the september, 2006 awake!

  17 between me and the sons of israel it is a sign to time indefinite, because in six days jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.

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  AlmostAtheist

  >>and Abaddon has no covering"

  The prophecy has been fulfilled!

  (C'mon, SOMEBODY had to post this...)

  Dave
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  35

  What "Christian Rock" would you recommend?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was driving along today and passed a church advertising some singing group that is to appear sunday.

  i thought, "man, i hate religious music.

  " it was the "always have" that caught my attention.

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  AlmostAtheist

  >>Not sure what you mean by this. 99% of pop music is about sex and/or relationships,

  Consider "Secret Lover". Here's a light, flowery, happy sounding song about two people having an extra-marital affair. It's presented in such a fluffy way, the listener is (or could be) left with a feeling that it's not too bad. And perhaps it's not, I'm not trying to moralize. I'm trying to show that what would be considered by many people to be a "bad message" was presented in a "good song", and it was very popular.

  I agree with you that not all music carries a message as obviously as religious music does. And when it does, it's only the artist's opinion. But how would Christian (or whatever religion) music be different? It's still just their opinion. They may be more serious in defending their opinion as the only right one, but I'm not obligated to take it that way.

  I have heard some of it, and it isn't all "serve god or die". Some were ballads based on Bible stories. Some were prayers of thanks. In fact, I don't recall hearing a "serve god or die" one, but then I only heard a few.

  Can I assume you won't be needing pirated copies? ;-)

  It's all good, Kid-A. In the end, I'm sure I'll wind up not liking it either. It's just uncomfortable to not like something that I've never tried.

  Dave
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  35

  What "Christian Rock" would you recommend?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was driving along today and passed a church advertising some singing group that is to appear sunday.

  i thought, "man, i hate religious music.

  " it was the "always have" that caught my attention.

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  AlmostAtheist

  >>Why would anyone (except x-tians) want to listen to religious propaganda masquerading as "music" ?

  I think most music is a propaganda of sorts. A message combined with a catchy tune is alluring. You can like the music and subconsciously begin to "like" the message without even thinking about it. Hence you get a congregation of loving JW's singing joyfully, "Though thousands will be falling, at your very side". *shudder, on so many levels*

  So I don't want to dismiss it on that basis alone. Honestly, I don't expect myself to become a huge "CastingCrowns" fan (I pick on them because I find the name amusing). I just don't like knowing that a JW-induced prejudice may still exist in me. If I'm gonna hate it, I wanna hate it because it sucks. Not because JW's taught me to hate it. Right now I don't know which it is.

  Thanks for the suggestions, All. I'll give 'em a whack.

  Dave
• 
  35

  What "Christian Rock" would you recommend?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was driving along today and passed a church advertising some singing group that is to appear sunday.

  i thought, "man, i hate religious music.

  " it was the "always have" that caught my attention.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  AlmostAtheist

  I was driving along today and passed a church advertising some singing group that is to appear Sunday. I thought, "Man, I HATE religious music. Always have." It was the "always have" that caught my attention. I realized that this was an automatic response, implanted by the JW's. When I really thought about it, what I dislike about the music is the (in my opinion) false message it conveys.

  So what? Do I agree with every song I listen to? Do I REALLY think she's buying a stairway to heaven? Is it REALLY a manic monday? And just how safe IS this "safety dance", anyway?

  As a tearing-down-the-walls experiment, I want to expose myself to some religious music. But to be fair, I don't like much music to begin with. So the best chance I have here is Christian Rock, I think.

  So, what would you recommend? I like "pop rock" stuff, particularly from the 80's. I like Alanis Morrisette. (Insert/delete n's, r's, s's, and t's as appropriate) I like Phil Collins.

  I await your learned replies!

  Dave
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  33

  RAY FRANZ--You Are Appreciated Very Much!!!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after coming home to read what has happened today on this board, i would just like to say that no matter what differences anyone has ever had with ray franz, i, for one appreciate what he has done for me.

  ray has helped more people to look at their spirituality over the last 2 decades.

  he is not perfect, but he has been a voice of reason and a man of integrity.

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  AlmostAtheist

  Yeah, here too, Min'. Thanks for bringing this back up. Nobody needs a god, but everybody needs somebody to shine a little light around once in a while. Ray had the biggest flashlight in town and had the guts, energy, and caring to use it. The ex-JW community would be very different without his efforts.

  Dave
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  6

  Emmaus Way

  by Cleopas in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have come buy today to announce a new ecumenical christian internet fellowship and forum community.

  it's fairly young and still being expanded/modified so as to be more inclusive.

  it's called emmaus way.

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  AlmostAtheist

  Hey Cleo,

  >>*blush*

  OK, my turn to blush. Sorry Pal, but you looked just exactly like a hit-n-run, scatter-links-all-over-internet spammer to me. I'm not usually so quick to judge. Sorry, really.

  >>You guys are still invited over to Emmaus Way, just the same.

  Thank you. This IS an open forum, inviting both ex-JW's and current JW's (and anyone else) to come and discuss issues. Primarily JW-related issues, but not exclusively.

  You may or may not realize that JW's are a highly controlled group. Any active JW that visits here is running a risk of discipline from the congregation, just for reading it. Consider that. Crazy, eh?

  You are welcome to be here, but I don't think posting links to your own web site for sheer promotional purposes is allowed. If your thread gets deleted, don't take it personally:

  Posting Guidelines -- To ensure all users feel safe and keen to participate, please avoid:
  ...
  6. Advertising -- You can mention relevant, non-commercial websites as long as they support your comment.

  Again, my apologies for 'stomping your toes'! :-)

  Dave
• 
  91

  The Watchtower and Creation

  by AlanF in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it struck me this past year, with respect to jw teachings about the timing of genesis 1, that even in things that really have no impact on what most jws think of as "core doctrine" the watchtower society sticks to its traditions over what the bible says.

  this was again brought home in the september, 2006 awake!

  17 between me and the sons of israel it is a sign to time indefinite, because in six days jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.

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  AlmostAtheist

  >>Moses, when referring to the Creative Days, was not making a doctrinal statement,

  I posted my reply before reading the above. I have to admit, I don't understand what you're saying.

  Here's my problem. Just jump in here and tell me where my thinking is awry:

  The Bible says (Gen 1, the Exodus verses earlier cited) that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. There is some debate about the length of these "days", but no one seems to feel they are longer than 6,000 years or so.

  The earth is thought to be 4.5 billion years old. Even if off by a few orders of magnitude, it's still ridiculously old.

  There's a conflict. The earth is observably older than the 6-days-of-creation would allow for. So, to resolve the conflict, we assume that the rock we call earth was created BEFORE the 6 creative days. The days then were just the time god took to "create" the livable aspects of earth.

  But this creates a new conflict, in that in contradicts the Exodus account. Regardless of the length of the "days", Exodus lumps the earth's creation into them.

  THAT'S the issue I'm hoping you'll address.

  Dave
• 
  91

  The Watchtower and Creation

  by AlanF in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it struck me this past year, with respect to jw teachings about the timing of genesis 1, that even in things that really have no impact on what most jws think of as "core doctrine" the watchtower society sticks to its traditions over what the bible says.

  this was again brought home in the september, 2006 awake!

  17 between me and the sons of israel it is a sign to time indefinite, because in six days jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.

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  AlmostAtheist

  >>Thanks for asking!

  No, thank YOU for replying. Hit-n-run types are extremely irritating. Someone willing to stick around and chat is much better!

  >>In Hebrew, the word translated "Day" covers the 24-hour, the generation, and a period of time.

  True, but the word used in genesis is referenced ordinally, e.g. "first day", "second day", etc. To my knowledge, there are no examples in the scriptures of this sort of ordinal reference applying to anything but a literal day.

  >>To take that statement as 'proof' of God creating Heaven & Earth in a 24-hour day- even tho He could have if He wanted to- is absurd

  Well, remember the book we're talking about here. The sun is portrayed as stopping in the sky long enough for [what's-his-name] to slaughter [whoever it was]. Balaam is depicted as having a conversation with a talking donkey. And the entire earth's population of animals is said to be descended from single pairs of various "kinds". You don't wanna go around labelling things "absurd" in this context, I don't think.

  HOWEVER, while I think there's a good argument for the Bible writer having meant a literal 24-hour day, that isn't the point. The point is that in order for the earth to be billions of years old, and the days of creation to NOT encompass billions of years, you've got to pull the creation of the earth itself out of those creative days. This is the teaching of the Watchtower, and I believe, your view as well. "In the beginning..." was a starting point, where the earth and heavens were created. THEN the creative days kick off. Am I right so far?

  The problem with the scriptures in Exodus is that they lump the creation of the earth and heavens INTO the creative days. So in order to believe the earth is billions of years old, you either have to find some way to explain how those Exodus scriptures don't really mean that, or you have to let the creative days themselves be billions of years old. Or you have to do some third thing I haven't thought of. :-)

  SO, my question remains: How do you reconcile a billions-year-old earth with the Exodus reference Alan cited?

  BTW - Why'd you change your login name? Just curious...

  Dave