Hey maximus, I dropped you a line...
biblexaminer
JoinedPosts by biblexaminer
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14
Change in WTS doctrine under way!
by biblexaminer ini posted a discussion on the bible research page with the same subject name.
it involves the 'quiet' new doctrine of the co, and i am sure he's not alone.
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14
Change in WTS doctrine under way!
by biblexaminer ini posted a discussion on the bible research page with the same subject name.
it involves the 'quiet' new doctrine of the co, and i am sure he's not alone.
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biblexaminer
I posted a discussion on the Bible Research page with the same Subject name. It involves the 'quiet' new doctrine of the CO, and I am sure he's not alone.
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Change in WTS doctrine under way!
by biblexaminer ina "significant re-adjustment" in watchtower dicta is in the works.
is it important?
if you do want to know, then take the time to read the following information, for doctrine is the motivation behind everything that is "watchtower", and recent happenings within watchtower-world shed light on the future course of the great ship watchtower.. [hr].
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biblexaminer
A "significant re-adjustment" in Watchtower dicta is in the works. Is it important? How so? If you do want to know, then take the time to read the following information, for doctrine is the motivation behind everything that is "Watchtower", and recent happenings within Watchtower-world shed light on the future course of the great ship Watchtower.
[HR]
PrologueAlthough the effect of the recent scandal relating to children being molested, and the things that are bound to happen in the near future with respect to this, will have an impact on the course of Watchtower-future, it is certain that Watchtower-past and Watchtower-present have been most affected by doctrine. Those who have left, and those who are leaving right now, are in the majority those who have had a "crisis of conscience" with respect to doctrine. After all, that's what got us into this mess in the first place. We cared about "right doctrine", and as time went by, we found out that the Watchtower had many false doctrines not unlike the religions we left when we joined.
The writer of this paper came to the point where he is, as a result of no other thing but this, -that doctrine continued to prove false, and the forcing of this doctrine by the Watchtower became like a pair of cold hands squeezing on the throat of free thought and expression.
The neophyte does not feel this squeezing. As a novice I myself was too busy in the prescribed regimen of activities to hardly notice the inconsistencies in doctrine, nor did I see the effect on lives. I saw little problem with doctrine, and I certainly saw no problem with the concept that the Watchtower had the right to set any doctrine it chose to set. It's unfortunate, but most Jehovah's Witnesses struggle to remain in this "newbie" mental state, a 'spiritual babe', a true 'newbie' to Biblical understanding, so as to keep their figurative head in the clouds. Ignorance is bliss.
This discussion is about understanding the future direction of the "Organization" of the Watchtower, via it's ever changing doctrines. As a long time, and current member, I understand all too well how one can plan one's life around doctrines which inevitably receive "significant re-adjustment". (note: they are never 'wrong')
As both a Bible student, and a person engaged in an ongoing study of this organization in the most intensive way, that of immersion in the culture, I would like to carry this understanding to the outside world.
I do not write this for the novice JW or those newly considering joining the Watchtower movement, to which I belong, for to understand the doctrine -and its effect- takes years of experience, -years of painful experience. I write for the benefit of those who have had the unfortunate experience of losing many years of their life to the Watchtower and who are curious as to what is happening to it now.
I also write this for the benefit of those who study this organization on the outside, and who could make use of an insiders knowledge and experience in understanding the doctrines of the Watchtower and the effect on the direction of the movement.
[HR]
The DiscussionRecently, a Circuit Overseer has been giving a talk that involves certain verses in Matthew chapter 24. What he is preaching, one can be absolutely sure, is sanctioned by the Watchtower proper. Why it's important takes a few more paragraphs to explain because one must first have in mind the Watchtower's position up till this point. And to understand why this particular change is so significant also takes a few paragraphs. Yet this read should be rewarding.
The material I choose so to make the point is the Watchtower article of May 1, 1999 pages 14-20, where we find a few important points which find even more significance when taken in context with the recent sermons given by certain CO's.
The Watchtower is full of allegories. If the reader was ever associated with the Org, then the significance of Matthew 24:45 and the allegories invented by the Watchtower relative to this verse are plain. It is the single most important verse in the whole Bible for JW's. The entire authority structure of the Governing Body rests here. It is the "sacred cow" of the Watchtower. Therefore, any changes in doctrine relative to Matthew chapter 24 will have lasting effects on the Watchtower organization.
At Matthew 24:15-16 we read in the NWT
*** Rbi8 Matthew 24:15-16 ***
15 “Therefore, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) 16 then let those in Ju·de'a begin fleeing to the mountains.The Watchtower allegory that relates to these verses states that "…the first fulfillment involved the Roman assault on Jerusalem and its temple" (Note: all quotes are from the w99 5/1 14-20) This article goes on to say that "It is apparent that Jesus was referring to the Roman army that would come…"
Therefore, the Roman army was represented by the "disgusting thing that causes desolation" in this supposed "first" fulfillment and it's "standing in a holy place" was a prophecy concerning the time when the Roman army would undermine the wall in 66CE and Roman soldiers, Gentiles, would enter the Temple grounds.
Christians then would recognize this "sign" and when the Roman army retreated, they would take the opportunity to "begin fleeing to the mountains".
This is all well and good, and for a fact is a matter of history now. But the Watchtower does not leave it there. They insist, and have for many years, that this was only the "first" fulfillment, and the article goes on to say …
"Since World War I, we have seen the larger fulfillment of Jesus’ sign recorded in Matthew chapter 24. Yet, recall his words: “When you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation . . . standing in a holy place, . . . then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains.” (Matthew 24:15, 16) This aspect of the prophecy must have a fulfillment in our time too."
They warn us that "OUR being alerted to an approaching calamity can enable us to avoid it."
Ohhh, we had better tune in!The article further points out the characters in the Watchtower allegory when it says
"So in 1919 “the disgusting thing” appeared. In time, the League gave way to the United Nations. Jehovah’s Witnesses have long exposed these human peace organizations as disgusting in God’s sight."
So, where in the "first" fulfillment, the "disgusting thing" was the Roman army, in this supposed "greater" or second fulfillment, the "disgusting thing" becomes the United Nations Organization.
But who then, in this "second" fulfillment, is represented by "Judea", the Jewish nation that was conquered with it's "holy place"? The article then relates …
"On Thursday, July 10, 1969, at the “Peace on Earth” International Assembly in New York City, F. W. Franz, then vice president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, gave …a significantly adjusted explanation…" of the outworkings of these events. …"The ‘great tribulation’ such as will not occur again is yet ahead, for it means the destruction of the world empire of false religion (including Christendom) followed by the ‘war of the great day of God the Almighty’ at Armageddon"
So then, the Watchtower allegory teaches that soon, very, very soon, the "disgusting thing" in the person of the United Nations Organization will stand in the modern-day "holy place" in the person of all religions of the earth, bar the Watchtower headquarters obviously, at which time it will be necessary for all good Jehovah's Witnesses to "begin fleeing to the mountains".
Interesting, then, isn't it, that …
"As first-century followers of Christ must have keenly watched to see how the “standing in a holy place” would develop, so do present-day [Jehovah's Witnesses]."
Now does it make any sense at all, that Jehovah's Witnesses need to watch for an event where the UN goes to church, …so that they know when to flee? FLEE WHAT? They are not in church are they?
16 Since the start of the great tribulation is yet future, is the “standing in a holy place” still ahead of us? Evidently so. While “the disgusting thing” made its appearance early in this century and has, thus, existed for decades, it will take a position in a unique way “in a holy place” in the near future.
Doesn't make much sense, not to us, and obviously not to them either, for they go on to say …" We cannot presently have full details about the great tribulation," and "Admittedly, we will have to wait for the actual fulfillment to know all the details."
Well, this is a convenient "out" for the Watchtower, with regard to this self contradictory allegory. Who can explain such nonsense? The article says …
"So “the disgusting thing that causes desolation,” which has existed since 1919, apparently is yet to stand in a holy place. How will this happen? And how can we be affected?" Yes Watchtower tell us, how can we be affected?
The watchtower explains …
"Details supplied in the prophecy help us to identify this symbolic beast as a peace organization …now the United Nations. Revelation 17:16, 17 shows that God will yet put it into the hearts of certain human rulers who are prominent in this “beast” to desolate the world empire of false religion. That attack marks the outbreak of the great tribulation."
That's all they have to offer in the way of explanation. I wonder how many letters the Watchtower received asking their "channel" how in the hell the UN's standing in say, the vatican, will be reason for JWs to flee. And flee from what? Supposedly JWs have already "fled" from the supposed modern-day counterpart of Judea/Jewry. As the article says
"We have for many decades been urging people to get out of false religion and to take up true worship."…and "continue to maintain a clear distinction between themselves and false religious organizations."
What the hell does it matter to JWs that the UN is going to enter the Churches etc and axe them? If we aren't there, then we're just bystanders. As the aarticle says "After all, obedient Christians will not be punished when destruction comes on false religion and the rest of this wicked system."
Why worry then? Why do JWs need to "be discerning and heed the warning about ‘the disgusting thing standing in a holy place.’ And they will act decisively on their unshakable faith."? WHY?And how many asked our dear GB deskboyz, "If the Church is the "Holy Place" where the UN will stand, why have we all prematurely fled?" Did not Jesus say that "when you see…THEN.." AND, if it's a "holy place" why did the Watchtower make us all flee it before our Lord directed?
So, it's no wonder that the Watchtower is going to change this self-contradictory nonsense by way of sermons given by COs instead of announcing it outright by way of their "channel" journal the Watchtower magazine. After the COs have made their rounds and given "new light" to congregations on a one-at -a-time basis, then the Watchtower can safely discuss Matthew chapter 24 with their new doctrine, and nobody will notice….So they thought!
The CO is giving a talk that in summary says that the allegory of so many years is now GONE. He is teaching that there is no "second" and "greater" fulfillment of Matthew 24:15-16 but that it was fulfilled in complete in the first century, and only upon Jewry.
Well. Like thinking minds didn't know that! The problem is, this doctrine was fundamental to their "sacred cow" dicta of Matthew 24:45 and the further allegorizing of the Watchtower. The Watchtower is slowly dismantling their power base by altering long held doctrine which is fundamentally important to their power base.
Time will tell, but this cannot last.
Bonus Laugh
On a further note, I wish to point out one unrelated thing in this confusing and self-contradictory article. In an effort to increase anxiety in the rank and file so as to raise the specter of an 'imminent' action against "false religion", thus increasing the level of expectation among JWs (which is needed to accelerate magazine sales etc) the Watchtower went on to add…
"Yet, it is noteworthy that in some lands there is already a detectable and growing antipathy toward religion." Now, this statement on it's own might have accomplished their goal, but they didn't leave it there. They went on to cry that "…Some political elements, in league with former Christians who have deviated from the true faith, are promoting hostility against religion in general and true Christians in particular."
So, in an effort to make JWs think that the UN is soon going to act against the Churches, they point, not to anything related to any particular government's sentiment toward Catholicism for instance, but rather to those who hate THEM, the Watchtower! As if the increased hate of the fools in Brooklyn means that soon the UN will gobble up the Church. Sure, the hate of Watchtower will grow and grow until action bursts forth against… the Church?
Nonsense! And of course all this Watchtower hate will vanish the instant the UN gets the idea to destroy all religion EXCEPT the Watchtower.
In other words, the hate of Watchtower will grow, and grow, and grow until all of a sudden they love us, and leave us completely alone as they make a viscous attack against everybody else!
As the article says "Consequently, political powers even now …they will further vent their opposition against God’s true worshipers, his “holy ones” in particular" but all this will suddenly end when they get a divine revelation that it's not the Watchtower they should hate, but it's everybody else, all religion on Earth, EXCEPT the Watchtower Society.
You decide what to call this.
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Newbies! The Deception:An Example
by zev inyesterday, in this thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=9805&site=3 i spouted these words: happened to drag rays book, isocf from its hidding place in my car....at lunch time today.. i opened to any page, i needed to brighten my day like no other j-dub borg book, could ever do.. .
i found a deception for the many newbies, trolls and plants that have been visiting us here in spiritual paradise, aka:simons board .
i cant post it till tommorow, because i cant bring that book into the house while the j-dub wife is trolling around.
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biblexaminer
Good work! Hey Zev, you got the round ones large, to take Ray's book into the house, with the wifey around. I leave mine at work. Most I got at home is a few papers in a hiding place in the garage.
Seems we are in the same boat. I have position in the cong, do you?
email me [email protected]
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Why are the JW's so bad?
by DF ini've been studying the bible with a jehovah's witness in my town, and i'm rather enjoying it.. but why do so many people hate the jw's.. i've researched on my own and have come to the conclusion that they are right on most accounts including the trinity, blood, nationalism... etc.... and the more arguments i hear against the more i'm drawn into believing what they stand for.. and every argument i've seen in support of the things jw's are against the more i think the jw's are right.. so why are they so bad?
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biblexaminer
Yes, yes, yes. Many of the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses are right. So, why not follow the devil? He took Jesus up on top of a high place and began "Is it not written...?|"
You see, it's not about doctrine. Even the Devil can use 'good doctrine' for his purposes. I have spent a lifetime in the mighty ORG, I am still there too. But I am like a caged animal. I want out.
So, you want to join? Then join. I see many like you coming in the door behind me, and I want to get out all the more.
I have studied, and studied, and studied. I assure you, that if you have any brain whatsoever, at some point you will begin to see that all is not right in tinseltown. You will want to get things straightened out. You will pursue the "truth" amidst the truth, and then, finally then, you will begin to see.
Ahh... but your life will be for the most part behind you, and you will be trapped, and as you wipe the sweat from your brow, the sweat from the effort of struggling to get out, then I will lean over to you and inquire "any more questions?"
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Your input on "Brother X" and the eld...
by biblexaminer inthere is a "brother" in our hall, or rather ..there was a "brother", or more exactly, there was a guy who was studying hard and was already being called "brother" but who was not yet baptised, ...in our hall, who is mr. internet guru.
this guy lives and breathes internet... it's his job.. anyway, every meeting i went to, and saw this guy still warming his chair, was a surprise to me.
i would go to the hall and on the way in i would ask myself "is he still going?
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biblexaminer
I wonder about the possible success of "re-activating" him. He hasn't been in the Org long enough to be able to be made really sick from a dose of truth.
I look at it this way. If they got him once, they might just get him again. He wouldn't ever be a "good dub", always questioning etc.. and he would probably once again quit, but not before wasting some years off his life.
He might be just gullible enough to be convinced to get baptised. I don't think he's the most luminous of the lamps on the lighting dept.
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Your input on "Brother X" and the eld...
by biblexaminer inthere is a "brother" in our hall, or rather ..there was a "brother", or more exactly, there was a guy who was studying hard and was already being called "brother" but who was not yet baptised, ...in our hall, who is mr. internet guru.
this guy lives and breathes internet... it's his job.. anyway, every meeting i went to, and saw this guy still warming his chair, was a surprise to me.
i would go to the hall and on the way in i would ask myself "is he still going?
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biblexaminer
There is a "brother" in our hall, or rather ..there WAS a "brother", or more exactly, there was a guy who was studying hard and was already being called "brother" but who was not yet baptised, ...in our hall, who is MR. Internet Guru. This guy lives and breathes internet... it's his job.
Anyway, every meeting I went to, and saw this guy still warming his chair, was a surprise to me. I would go to the hall and on the way in I would ask myself "is he still going?" It was like waiting for the other shoe to drop. Like watching a twenty dollar bill on a busy sidewalk and being continually surprised that it was still there, day after day, meeting after meeting.
I would ask myself "when is this guy gonna click his mouse onto a forbidden site?" I couldn't understand how he could have gone on that long. On the one hand, he spends all his time on the internet. On the other, he's "luvin the bro's and the meets".
Anyway, he quit! FINALLY...
But... the "bro's" are visiting him, gonna try to make him forget.... "look into my eyes Mr. X... watch the nice swinging watch"
Question. Do you think the elders can effectively "rework" him?
Will he be just dumb enough to come back and get baptised?
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Feeling So Alone
by troubled ini have to post tonight.
i'm feeling so alone.
stopped here at the library to post this, on my way to the book study.
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biblexaminer
Cheer up. We are all out here doing this together. Hey, just think about my situation and it'll take your mind off it for a while.
What's my situation? I am the conductor at the stupid thing. That's right. This week I have to start the drones in on the "new" book. I have to listen to all the mouths re-speaking the Watchtower nonsense, and what's more, I have to commend them for their "fine comments" and "deep thinking".... GAG
If you think it's hard to look at and put up with the study conductor, just imagine how hard it is for him (me). He has to look into all the tired faces, and listen to dribble, and act like it's all just dandy. He might even have to go on a shepherding call after the stupid thing to tell sister "troubled" that she's not living up to the standard, service is low, attitude is bad.
Now, do you want to switch places? I suffer from depression too, and I hide it. That which keeps me sane are a few things. I have a real good friend, another "bro", although he's not going anymore and the CO,DO BOE are all on his doorstep (he works alot to keep away) bugging him. He helps me stay on top. As well, I have my clandestine work, and doing this, as well as seeing the fallout in the local congos, fills my needs.
Get a hold of yourself sis. We are in a war here. Don't clamp up on us. Do battle! You need to study and learn more so that you will be convinced thoroughly of what's true. The WTBTS is a bunch of ego-maniacs. I don't care how "sincere" they think they are, their NUTS. They are the ones who ought to be depressed, and they will be!
If you need somebody who's "in", who understands, then [email protected]
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August km re media reports
by expatbrit innot sure if this has been highlighted on the board, but in the august km there's an interesting paragraph in the front page article "you are a theatrical spectacle":.
sometimes the media publish reports about the activities of jehovah's people.
while we appreciate good reports that are factual and fair in dealing with our work, we also expect bad reports to be spread by our detractors from time to time.
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biblexaminer
I mailed to a whole neighborhood where a sister lives. It was a 3 page letter that exposed the Watchtower. It hit hard and killed 2 budding studies on that street.
Interestingly, the sister said "This must be the persecution that we were told would come"
She couldn't see the forest for the trees.
The facts revealed about the ivory Tower made no headway with her. Her brain is burnt.
BUT, it the WTBTS folded up, this would make them start to rethink, although even THAT would take time.
I think that if you set a JW on fire, and the GB said that they were NOT on fire, they would make no effort to stop-drop-and roll. They would just keep going door to door while on fire.
The question then is, if a JW on fire came to your door, would you put them out? Or would you even open the door? After all, a burning ember might ignite a curtain or something.
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TRY AND EXPLAIN THIS!
by nicolaou injust a bit of fun.. open microsoft word and select a new document then 'cut & paste' or copy the red text into it.. press enter and wait 3 seconds... .
you will instantly be elevated to almost godlike status if you can explain this!.
nic'.
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biblexaminer
The first part RAND is the command for "Random", and is an interpolation based on the base ability of an algorythm on the processor which is designed for fandom number generation.
The numbers after the command are the parameters.