Thats odd because God is also telling Iraq to Go Jihad on US. God needs to make up his mind!
PaNiCAtTaCk
JoinedPosts by PaNiCAtTaCk
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JWs are going to love this...
by Ellie in'god told me to invade iraq' - bush .
friday, october 07, 2005. source: ananova.
us president george bush has said that he was instructed by god to invade iraq and afghanistan, according to a new bbc series.
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Hi New Here!
by weinermcgee inhi folks whats up?.
i grew up as a strict jw until my early 20's when an event happened that made me start thinking for myself, thank goodness.
what i mean by strict was i think most of you will undertsand that i really believed in what i was doing, baptised at the age of 13, seriously considered bethal, pioneered and was offered to be a ministerial servent.
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PaNiCAtTaCk
Hi and welcome! You will find alot of comfort here and I think you will also find peace. I encourage you to read everything you can get your hands on. Read all the "best of" posts. Also read Crisis of Conscience and In search of Christian freedom. I am currently reading Gentile times reconsidered and I just finished Combating cult mind control. I know it sounds like alot but these books have really helped me to move on. Oh and also seeing a psychologist for a few months I finally feel free! If you are still having doubts I encourage to educate yourself like myself. You and I are alot the same. Same age and the same philosophies about life. I also had a wonderful JW upbringing that probably helped mold me into a good person. I was never over sheltered like some of my friends in the JW community. I had lots of responsibilities during my JW career. I was literature servant when I was removed. Also loved hall projects and helping during rebuilds after hurricanes hit. My wife and I were very zealous and always in service. Lots of demonstrations and talks. Watchtower reader and bookstudy reader. Always enjoyed these things until I started seeing things that didnt make sence and investigated them. Lived in alot of anguish for 2 years until i finally read so called apostate material. I to lost everyone but my Mom. But I understand stand why im shunned because I used to do the same thing to my friends who went astray. I still love alot of witnesses and simply understand that they are misled. Feel free to email me any time and I will be happy to talk. Once again Welcome!
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NEW STUDENT IN NEED OF NEW ADVICE.
by stillAwitness in.
my first semester in college is okay but how do you stay focused guys?
i wanna strive for a's instead of just a passing grade but sometimes i feel so blah when i wake up in the morning.
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PaNiCAtTaCk
Hows your personal study of the publications? Maybe you should up your Watchtower and Awake intake. If your tired from classes the meetings tues, thurs, Sun, and field service on Saturdays will REFRESH YOU!
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Panicattack Update on my wife and family situation(thanks for helping guys)
by PaNiCAtTaCk inthis is an update for any who have kept up with some of my former posts and have taken time out of their lives to give me advice on dealing with situations like having a wife who still believes and a child starting kindergarden.
these situations can quickly turn into a life crisis when a person doesnt know the proper way to deal with these things or know where to turn for help.
i am indebted to the internet and also websites like this for helping me to break free.
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PaNiCAtTaCk
This is an update for any who have kept up with some of my former posts and have taken time out of their lives to give me advice on dealing with situations like having a wife who still believes and a child starting kindergarden. These situations can quickly turn into a life crisis when a person doesnt know the proper way to deal with these things or know where to turn for help. I am indebted to the internet and also websites like this for helping me to break free. I want to think everyone who ever responded with advice when I was in a panic state. For those that have never seen any of my former posts feel free to search my former topics. Since myself and others have found Ithinkisee's updates very encouraging I felt it would be appropriate for me to also post a short update on my situation. Initially my wife would cry when I would try to talk to her about the society. She was very scared for me and for us as a family. It was obvious to her that I was lost or blinded by Satan. One of the big things that really got me researching the society was the whole 607 issue. When I first understood how wrong we were on this date i could not keep this information inside. I would ramble on during dinner and while driving in the car and pretty much when ever I had a listening ear, including visits with my work mates on those long graveyards. The same work mates who i had witnessed to so many times :) It wasnt until recently though that I had realized a seed of doubt had already been planted in her a couple of years earlier from a show she watched on dateline about the child molestation policies and silentlambs. From what I understand this show actually followed a molester in service or conducting service? Anyway this particular show in which i still havent seen really bothered her. But like a good witness she pushed these doubts into the back of her mind until they were brought out later. I had talked so much about 1914 that around 3 months ago when the public speaker on Sunday made the comment that "If you are a visitor to the Hall today and you dont understand why 1914 is the most important date for us, just ask any Jehovahs sitting here today" At this point my wife realized that after all these years she had know way of explaining 1914 in detail to anyone who asked. This speaker made such a big deal about 1914 over and over again in the talk that she started to recall several things I had said. It made me feel good to have her ask me later to really explain to her where the society was wrong. When a witness actually sets down and commits to listening and actually LISTENS. There is no going back! After she started listening and reading for herself then the meetings started becoming hard to set through without thinking critical. Like so many of us here, the more she read for herself and actually considered both sides of the issue instead of soley the Watchtowers, the more she saw major doubts. At this same time my wife and I were getting our son ready to start his first year of kindergarden. We decided that after considering lots of advice on this forum and doing alot of thinking FOR OURSELVES that we didnt want our child starting school being the odd kid. We knew as a family that we had to many issues with the society to ever be zealous again as a witness. We also knew that we could never teach our kid anything about 1914 or the importance of it and we knew that after the Godly Obedience assembly that we could never encourage our son to regular pioneer and bypass further education for the society, NOT JEHOVAH. In fact by the time the Godly Obed. assembly came around and we were actually setting there at the assembly my wife was having a hard time keeping snide comments to herself about the garbage she was hearing from the platform and the bad advice they were giving. We left at noon on Sunday and spent the rest of the day at the lake enjoying our family and the new freedom that was soon to come for our family. (Keep in mind there were good things brought out at the assembly. Its just that the importance was on Organizational obedience and giving up your life for the Org.) By this time my wife had read many quotes from years past and she could see the vicious cycle the society was stuck in. After listening to experience after experience of kids dropping out of College that were going into there 4th year and experiences of people giving up there good paying jobs to be poor and preach the societies propaganda before the end comes, my wife knew for sure that she was done. Of course, all of these doubts also brought up the child molestation issues that she had suppressed for so long. These issues never bothered me but apparantly the show she watched made it quite an issue for her when realizing the problems that the society had really created with there policies. Anyways here is where we currently are as a family. Our son is a happy normal kid at school and really loves it. The other day he brought home a picture of a Turkey and a flag that he colored at school but it didnt even bother us. Once you step out of the societies control for a short time the rules and regulations that they invent which at one time were such huge issues, become tiny and ridiculous for the most part. My wife is currently reading CoC and enjoying it very much then she will read In search of christian freedom. I just added two steve hassan books to the list Ive read and she is looking forward to also reading at least one of these. "combatting cult mind control" in which I enjoyed very much. It focuses on many cults and there are so many parallels between the witnesses and the moonies ect. it will blow your mind. Everyone who leaves any Cult all go's through the same issues and feeling of "I have just left the truth and im going to be destroyed". We have lost many friends even though no action has been taken against us. Only a small handfull of our friends 4 or 5 have even spoke to us or invited us to make sundays meeting. Most have spoken to us once and then weve never heard from them again. I know 2 weeks ago our cong had the C.O. visit and nobody even came by! I knew the C.O. would be out to get me back to cong but he didnt even call or stop by. It was just months ago I was literature servant and well liked. Its amazing how conditional the love of the cong really is! My wifes family is an hour away and she has yet to talk to them and still dreading it. My parents just said that "they would always love me no matter what and that they had alot of respect for me as a good person." So basically, i was very happy with what they said and took it as probably better than what it could have been considering some of the others experiences on this board. My wife doesnt feel that her family will be as accepting, although she does have two worldly brothers that already know our new stand and they are very happy. We are getting closer as a family and we have more time to do things together. Weve been camping 3 times in the last month when before I would have been counseled on to much recreation and not taking responsibilities serious enough as they are from Jehovah. Ive gotten better at Golf and have actually placed in 3 local tournaments :) Other things will come up I know, and as they do I will make decisions based on my conscience and my own sence of right and wrong. The new freedom my family has is so wonderful and I know things will only get easier from here on out as the cult mind control continues to break from us and our thinking. Someone in a cult or cult environment never realizes he or she is in one until they break free and allow themselves to think free from the control. Then later after much study, it becomes obvious. We still believe in God and I Do need to read the bible more with my family (i am still not perfect). Since our leaving I have had many invite us to their church but at this time I dont see myself ever attending a formal place of worship. There are still things about other religions I dont think I could ever accept, but I will not write it off completely because I have the freedom to go if I want :) I still would like to think there is not a burning Hell, although I am slowly accepting the idea that there may not be two classes.(other sheep, little flock). Honestly, my wife and I dont feel that we have to have an answer to every question that is not black or white in the bible anymore. I am content to think that Jehovah is not so shallow that he would destroy me for not following some small off shoot group that has had numerous false prophecies in the last 120 plus years.
Things have worked out great for me and my family and if you are struggling with a BELIEVING mate dont give up! They may be having doubts deep down but they are just to scared to act upon them. Sometimes a simple talk at the kingdom hall can make them realize they are not a true believer. Also I recommend you read everything that you can get your hands on. Reading everything and considering both sides of issues is not being blinded by Satan, its normal and its called educating yourself! I just ordered Gentile times reconsidered and I cant wait to read it! Also since I walked away I have stopped the psychologist visits and also the anxiety meds the doctors had me on :) You would be suprised to know how much stress is on you as a witness and you not even no it! Its hard to see that all the meetings and the rigorous schedule is causing major stress when you are told over and over again that your are "the happiest people on the planet!" Thanks again to everyone that has given me advice on different things I was facing. My experience and ithinkisee's experience probably wouldnt have been possible without approaching our spouses with an organized loving plan of attack that wouldnt totally scare them off for good. If you just get your spouse thinking, the truth about the truth will eventually bring them out. We are just a couple of examples out of many that are leaving or having doubts RIGHT NOW! Thanks again everyone! -
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More JW hurricane help news article
by PaNiCAtTaCk intennessee workers' chain saws help ravaged town cleave to hope .
homeowners welcome these house calls by jehovah's witnesses crew jehovah's witness eric pierce of sparta takes a break at the end of the day with friend jonathan clouse of sparta after a long day of cutting downed and damaged trees in waveland and bay st. louis, miss.
john partipilo / staff .
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PaNiCAtTaCk
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Homeowners welcome these house calls by Jehovah's Witnesses crew Jehovah's Witness Eric Pierce of Sparta takes a break at the end of the day with friend Jonathan Clouse of Sparta after a long day of cutting downed and damaged trees in Waveland and Bay St. Louis, Miss. JOHN PARTIPILO / STAFF
By LEON ALLIGOOD
Staff Writer
Published: Friday, 09/16/05=20
The Tennesseans, Jehovah's Witnesses from Liberty and Sparta, offered to help out at no cost.
"Wherever there's a disaster, we go,'' said Bill Stebbins, who runs a floor buffing and waxing business in Sparta. "We help out our fellow Jehovah's Witnesses, but we also help anybody who asks us. We don't turn anybody away."
It was the "free" that really got the Jensens' attention.
"It's a godsend,'' said Vivian, a home health nurse who earlier in the week had gotten a quote for $900 to remove a tall pecan tree that Katrina toppled at their rental property. Considering the majority of their other home's damage estimated at $40,000-plus came from flooding, and the Jensens didn't have flood insurance, the $900 was a financial burden they couldn't afford.
The Jensens' home on Jefferson Davis Avenue was soaked by the Category 4 hurricane. According to Alan, a retired oceanographer at a nearby naval facility, his 116-year-old home was built on ground that is 23 feet above sea level The blue house sits on a yard-high foundation.
"And we still had 2 feet of water inside the house. That means the storm surge was at least 28 feet high, an extraordinary thing to happen. We're a quarter- to a half-mile from the beach,'' he said.
"Nobody on our street had flood insurance because the water had never been that high."
But the Jensens are counting their blessings. Their home is still standing, unlike those of many of their friends and acquaintances living closer to the Gulf. All of the homes within six blocks of the water are now just piles of broken timber. There's not even a faint similarity to the way the community used to look. Destruction is complete, in every direction.
Since returning to their home a few days after the storm, the Jensens had been camping out on their property while stripping away anything that had gotten wet: drywall, rugs, shelving, carpets. They wanted to move to a rental home they own a few minutes away in nearby Bay St. Louis, another small town that suffered massive damage, but a pecan tree had fallen onto the yellow, two-bedroom cottage. A dinner plate-sized hole in the roof opened the interior to the elements, and numerous shingles had flown off to
who knows where.
Soon after the Jensens asked if Stebbins and his crew could help, the couple was leading a convoy on the short drive from Jefferson Davis Avenue in Waveland to St. John Street in Bay St. Louis.
The men from Middle Tennessee exited their pickups, surveyed the damage from the ground and climbed a ladder to the roof.
Ken Skinner, a logger from Liberty, came up with the strategy to take down the tree without doing further damage to the roof.
First, the tree's smaller limbs at the top would be lopped off, then three-foot sections of the trunk would be cut, down to the point of
impact.
Skinner, 54, planned to bring down the rest of the tree by tying a rope to the top and having his four co-workers pull the tree away from the house with the rope while he cut the tree near its base.
"I like to come out and help in these kinds of things. This is what I do for a living, cutting trees, so it's what I'm good for. A lot of these people have lost everything. I don't mind giving up some vacation time to lend a hand,'' Skinner said.
Several hundred fellow Jehovah's Witnesses from Middle Tennessee are scheduled to work in Waveland and Bay St. Louis during the next several months, on projects such as tree and debris removal and some home rebuilding.
"People know us for our door-to-door visitation, but we're a lot more than that,'' Skinner said.
Jonathan Clouse, 20, of Sparta said coming to the storm-damaged Gulf Coast had made him grateful for what he has.
"A lot of these people have lost everything. They have nothing left because the storm took it all. I've never seen anything like this,'' he said. For block after block, houses have been stripped to their foundations. Walls and roofs are blocks away, piled up in a 6-foot-high jumble of two-by-fours "This is unbelievable. It'll be hard to describe to the people back home,'' said Eric Pierce, 30, of Sparta, his T-shirt soaked with the sweat and grime of a hard day's work that began at 4 a.m.
Fourteen hours later, the five men and their chain saws were finally calling it a day with the Jensens' pecan tree.
"Pull,'' said Skinner. The rope grew taut on the top of the trunk still resting on the Jensens' home. With a jerk of the saw's starter rope, the cutting machine growled to life. The veteran logger notched the base of the tree on one side and then made a cut from the opposite direction. With a dull thud the trunk of the tree fell to the ground away from the house.
"I can't thank these guys enough. They did it for free, unbelievable,'' Vivian Jensen said.
"It's so hard for me to accept help, but now is the time to accept help. This is just beyond us,'' she said.
"I hope we'll revive here," her husband said. "I think we will, with a stronger sense of being. These kinds of things make
you think."
http://www.ashlandcitytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=3D/20050916/NEW=S01/509160413/1006/MTCN01=20 -
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Does anyone who Left Jehovahs Organization, still......
by defd inread the bible daily?
honestly do you?
or is it collecting dust on a table or shelf somewhere?
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PaNiCAtTaCk
Defd, Honestly, do you read the publications more than the bible? Do you read more watchtowers and awakes than the bible? I know you do because i know thats ALL I read when I was an active witness. The only bible reading most witnesses do is whatever scriptures are quoted in the publications they are currently studying.
The society uses about 20 scriptures or less over and over and over again to prove there points and most are taken out of context. Please DEFD just set down and read Galations without the Watchtowers help and see what it says to you. -
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If you had the job to decide who will be saved or not at Armageddon...
by JH in.
what would you look at?.
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PaNiCAtTaCk
I would look at how a person displayed the quality of love to others throughout his life. I would look at how honest a person lived when he could have lied or cheated, taxes ect. ect. If I was God I would also look at the sincerity of there prayers. Laws enforced by the imperfect interpretations of men would have No weight in my decisions. At the same time I would never shotgun a group of people like the JW's as a whole because they have simply been misled and brainwashed into the judgmental group they are. Good question by the way>
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does anyone have Gentile times reconsidered book they will sell??
by PaNiCAtTaCk indoes anyone have gentile times reconsidered book they will sell??
i will paypal tomorrow if its priced reasonable.
i know there are wonderful people on here who would let me borrow one but i really want my own copy and i dont care if its marked in.
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PaNiCAtTaCk
Does anyone have Gentile times reconsidered book they will sell?? I will paypal tomorrow if its priced reasonable. I know there are wonderful people on here who would let me borrow one but I really want my own copy and I dont care if its marked in. Thanks in advance!
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I can be a Jehovah's Witness and fight fires at the same time...
by TresHappy inmike davis, firefighter.
bank one forest park (3:05 p.m.): it may be less than a foot square, but mike davis and fellow forest park firefighter julie stanley work the smoldering patch of mulch as if it could turn into a full-fledged fire.
they till soil around the tree and douse it with water until the smoke stops.. it's a non-emergency response for engine 42. with no sirens or flashing lights, it's excruciatingly routine.
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PaNiCAtTaCk
I was a professional fireman from 94-97 before I got the job I have now(a better one). Every Circuit Overseer that came through gave me a very hard time. "Youll never make servant ect. ect. The congregation needs you. I was even told "If I were you I would turn in my notice tomorrow!" I was told that my choosing a job where I work shift work and miss meetings was the same as telling Jehovah "I dont trust you to provide for me JAH so I will go and get it myself" They said I was giving up my freedom of speech. At the Org obedience Assembly they had an Ex-fireman on there that was high ranking and he had just quit his job to pursue more door knocking, finally realizing how close we are to the end. If I were still reaching out they
would have really come down on me after that experience! Maybe he puts in tons of time on his monthly report but he is still frowned upon greatly and you can be sure of that! -
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heres a report on whats up with the witnesses affected by Katrina
by PaNiCAtTaCk ini really feel for them!
please do not be an idiot and call any of the numbers!
if you know of someone displaced by the hurricane, they should call the rooming hq: .
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PaNiCAtTaCk
I really feel for them! Please do not be an idiot and call any of the numbers! Thanks!
F.E.M.A.yesterday called this “Very likely this is the worst disaster ever in the United States”. It is being likened to the Asian Tsunami of last winter.
Many of our brothers and sisters in the areas worst affected by the hurricane have gone to Houston, Texas.
See: *** g02 11/22 p. 19 Love in Action—A Marathon Relief Effort ***
They have made 800 rooms available to house these friends who are coming in as refugees.
Many of the friends are coming to the brothers in desperate conditions. Many are financially broke and have no place to go home to.
A sizable number were at conventions this past weekend in Baton Rouge, La and other areas when the evacuation order began and had just enough funds to get them through the convention. They could not even go back to their homes to prepare in any way.
The situation is very serious as you no doubt have seen from reports on the news.
The problem is since this is such a recent event, coordination of the efforts has been difficult, because of not being able to find where these brothers and sisters are. Basic infrastructure is down. Phone service -- cell and land line -- into the disaster areas are virtually non-existent, though some can phone out.
So the brothers in Houston have set up phone hotlines for this purpose so that they can be reached.
They would like anyone who is housing any of the friends from disaster areas, or the refugee brothers and sisters themselves to contact them at the hotline numbers below.
Please DO NOT call these numbers unless you fall into one of the above categories.
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This comes from the Houston City Overseer:
If you come to know of refugee brothers or sisters, we would like the refugee to call 713-453-0257 or 832-725-8952, so we can account for them.
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8/30/05 GREATER HOUSTON AREA – HURRICANE ROOMING EFFORT-UPDATE
Assistants: Ritch Pond 281-341-0707
Andy Trawick 713-419-2560
Roy Eby 281-660-5354
John Eppolito 281-469-9309
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I already have some house guests , but I still have some blow up beds and pillows I keep for just such needs, that they can use in the living room, and children, or young people on the floor. That storm was the worse the Gulf has had.
We all know that no matter where we go, we always have Brothers and Sisters to call upon that will take us in, no matter what, and help us regain our feet, and balance. They [those that help us] may not have much, but we all work together to make it through. I have experienced that all over the world to which I have been!
I just thought I would let you in on some news that is not publicized or noted by the world. There are many others that could not make it out, and those that will be in even greater need, and have no one! Things will be shipped into them, and the Witnesses are usually one of the very first to arrive, because we are ready to roll at a moments notice!
We repair and rebuild homes free of charge from donations of others and no one is paid, as it is all volunteer work. Everything is built to code, and better than what you would get from most contractors, as most cannot be trusted after such devastation. Those being helped often donate Insurance money they receive for such things. Those that have none get helped as well, same as the rest!
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I am way behind on my email after being with no electricity for two days here. Some are still without power, but the vast majority have been restored. Katrina came ashore here on Thursday afternoon, the eye passing just a few miles south of my home in Hollywood and moving southwest from there across Miami-Dade county.
Most everyone in my congregation was without power for at least two days, some for up to four days. It sure is miserable trying to sleep without air conditioning when the low at night is 80F! Nevertheless, we're all happy that we are alive and actually still have our personal property. Compared to some, we did good through this one.
I have not he! ! ard anything about our brothers in South Miami-Dade county, but I'm sure some of them have been affected by the flooding because it was so widespread. Most likely they are being taken care of by local congregations. Many neighborhoods there still have water in their homes and are now beginning to assess the damage. Government response has been slow in that area.
That's the latest from South Florida. I have not heard anything official from the Organization about the effects of Katrina on the friends here or in the Gulf coast area of the U.S. I'm sure
information will begin flowing to the congregations this week. My guess is that friends in the surrounding areas will be asked to open their homes to those left homeles! s.! Personally, I would encourage all the friends that are able to increase their contributions to the worldwide work...that is the main source of funding used for disaster relief work.
Stay well everyone,
##@#@##@ Beach Congregation
Hollywood, Florida