Posts by bjc2012

150

INDEED, LET THE GAMES BEGIN

by You Know in

several enemies of the watchtower have ebulliently expressed the sentiment: let the games begin.

indeed, i too share that desire to let the games begin, so-to-speak.

but, what exactly are we to expect when once the games commence?

bjc2012

HS directs YK's attention to Jeremiah 5th chapter:

26 "‘For among my people there have been found wicked men. They keep peering, as when birdcatchers crouch down. They have set a ruinous [trap]. It is men that they catch. 27 As a cage is full of flying creatures, so their houses are full of deception. That is why they have become great and they gain riches. 28 They have grown fat; they have become shiny. They have also overflowed with bad things. No legal case have they pleaded, even the legal case of the fatherless boy, that they may gain success; and the judgment of the poor ones they have not taken up. - Jeremiah 5:26-28.

HS comments,

"Now ten guesses who springs to mind when you read those verses…..lol"

YK quips,

"I don't need any guesses. The verse is directed to those who are wicked among those whom Jehovah called "my people." So obviously the verse applies to Jehovah's Witneeses since we are Jehovah's people. That's what I have said all along that God's judgment begins with us. / You Know"

YK's above statement actually proves to be a preposterous IMPOSSIBILITY. The part about God bringing "judgment" upon Jehovah's Witnesses, based upon what he teaches and believes. In short, YK is asking God to go against His own standard of Divine "Justice".

Here's why?

Simply put, God cannot bring "judgment" upon someone who has never been warned by Him. To do so, His Word informs us, would violate the Divine Scales of "justice" and fair play. As the Word says,

"The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; Righteous and upright is he." (Deut. 32:4)

So, with that thought in mind, we must ask this all-important question,

If the JWs and the WTS are to be Divinely "Judged" as YK's says above by God Himself, then who did God first send to warn them of their wicked ways BEFORE, He righteously passes "Judgment" upon them? (1 Peter 4:17)

So what YK teaches above is ridiculous and terribly twisted.

Jesus said:

"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin." (John 15:22)

Sin was incurred in God's eyes, because Jesus spoke to the offenders. He warned or admonished the wrongdoers -- repeatedly, over and over again, as the standards of Divine Righteousness and Justice, in no uncertain terms, DEMANDS. (See Jeremiah 11:7; Titus 3:10.)

Jesus spoke to the people, the offenders specifically, did he not? Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and other religious leaders, did he not? He admonished them, repeatedly, did he not? In fact, Jesus kept on warning and admonishing, right to their faces, up till when they decided to shut him up for good, did he not? Jesus thusly became a "martyr" for speaking out, and died for his warning work, God's Word says. And he did all of this publicly. He condemned in open view all offenders of God's Law, for their sins and transgressions against God Himself. So, after doing this for God, he could say with a clear conscience, the above words at John 15:22.

Paul closely followed this example and was able to say himself,

"Hence I call you to witness this very day that I am clean from the blood of all men, for I have not held back [like YK and JWs] from telling you all the counsel of God." (Acts 20:26, 27)

Paul like Jesus, was "clean from the blood of all men". Jesus and Paul "opened their mouths, and pleaded the cause of the afflicted ones". (Proverbs 31:8, 9)

Which, of course, righteously opens the doors for God to pass "judgment" upon the wicked.

So God's Word shows us, that before any Divine Judgment is executed upon anyone, (even those that don't serve Him, like the case of the Ninevites and Jonah) God always, always provides a spokesman first, to represent Him. God provides someone to point out to the wrongdoer, what he is doing wrong and how by his conduct he is OFFENDING God. God shoulders the key "responsbility" upon Himself to provide a suitable messenger first, BEFORE any "meting out justice" can be righteously brought to bear upon the offender. So says, God Himself. (Isa. 61:1,2; Luke 21:22)

So, if that is the case, who then did God send to represent Him? Who was God's advocate, in this case of "judgment upon the House of God", as YK says? (1 Peter 4:17)

Certainly not YK. He never "declared" the WTS "wicked". Out of his own mouth, he said he was even afraid to tell his own wife about this situation, let alone any one at Brooklyn Headquarters -- Heavens No!

He's keeping his "trap" shut, for fear of the obvious. (Disfellowshipment and subsequent lost of family. He like many other JWs is engulfed with "trembling at men" which means "no [divine] protection" for him. -- Prov. 29:25)

So who did God "send"? If not JWs and the world in general, then who is left?

Perhaps, the "apostates"?

Who do we know, has been prolific at pointing the finger at the pedophile-protecting, UN/prostituting, hypocritical (UN Library Card Defense), calloused lying and deceit (Theocratic Strategy) practices of the WTS?

Not YK, right? Not loyal, supporting [hear no evil, see no evil] JWs, right?

Who has God sent, to bravely point out the "sin" and ungodly transgressions of the WTS, as Jesus and Paul did, I ask? (John 15:22; Acts 20:26, 27)

Whoever this person or group proves to be, one thing we know for sure -- it is certainly, positively, not YK.

bjc

19

Last night's bookstudy / Questions about 1919

by Leander in

jw
friends

last night's bookstudy again focused on the date of 1919 and how it was proof that god's favor was directed towards the bible students.

this week the wts compared themselves to the jews when they were released from babylon.

basically they talked about how the jews were discplined by jehovah when babylon destroyed jerusalem and took them hostage.

bjc2012

You Know,

You wrote:

What that means then is that we are facing the antitypical captivity and subsequent restoration in the future. That will be the ultimate test of our faith before Jehovah gives the earth to the meek ones. The Watchtower's applying all of those prophecies to 1919 merely served to seal up the truth

If you believe what you just wrote, then you have no business calling anyone an apostate. And the WTS has no right to disfellowship anyone for apostasy if as you stated 'truth has been sealed up.' Their main reason for putting someone out is that that individual has deviated from truth, yet you say they do not have truth, all truth.

I can further state, based on what you wrote, that we are not living in the time of the end. Daniel 12:4 states: "...seal up the books until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant." I believe this means that in the 'time of the end' truth would become available to 'many.' You state that this has not happened yet; that it is in the future.

The Watchtower's applying all of those prophecies to 1919 merely served to seal up the truth until such time as Jehovah is ready for the apocolypse---the unveiling.

And you have stated the exact reason why no human can be compeled to accept everything the WTS teaches. They have been doing nothing but guessing about the meaning of prophesy for the past 120 years. And they have the audacity to disfellowship individuals who disagree with their guesses. Incidentally, the WTS cannot 'seal up truth' as this was done by Jehovah. They simply misinterpret and misapply prophesy.

It is becoming more apparent by the day why Jehovah is going to discipline us and how it is going to come about.

Well, you are finally coming around to seeing this issue in the proper light. Back in June, 2001 in one of your 'Apostate Doom' threads, I stated to you that JWs would be disciplined by Jehovah and you poo pawed the idea saying 'they would only be caught up in the fracas that was occurring for the world.' I see you are also coming around to accepting that the Dateline show will have some importance in the fulfillment of Ezekiel 36 upon JWs, as I stated to you in that same thread (listed below).

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6509&site=3&page=4

You are a bit slow on the 'uptake' aren't you?

Should Leander conclude from your comments that he is wasting his time going to the book study as the Isaiah book needs to be trashed?

bjc

150

INDEED, LET THE GAMES BEGIN

by You Know in

several enemies of the watchtower have ebulliently expressed the sentiment: let the games begin.

indeed, i too share that desire to let the games begin, so-to-speak.

but, what exactly are we to expect when once the games commence?

bjc2012

YK,

THIS IS YOUR (& JWS) IMMEDIATE FUTURE

Ezekiel 7th Chapter

(NIV)

10 "The day is here! It has come! Doom has burst forth, the rod has budded, arrogance has blossomed!
11 Violence has grown into a rod to punish wickedness; none of the people will be left, none of that crowd--no wealth, nothing of value.
12 The time has come, the day has arrived. Let not the buyer rejoice nor the seller grieve, for wrath is upon the whole crowd.
13 The seller will not recover the land he has sold as long as both of them live, for the vision concerning the whole crowd will not be reversed. Because of their sins, not one of them will preserve his life.
14 Though they blow the trumpet and get everything ready, no one will go into battle, for my wrath is upon the whole crowd.
15 "Outside is the sword, inside are plague and famine; those in the country will die by the sword, and those in the city will be devoured by famine and plague.
16 All who survive and escape will be in the mountains, moaning like doves of the valleys, each because of his sins.
17 Every hand will go limp, and every knee will become as weak as water.
18 They will put on sackcloth and be clothed with terror. Their faces will be covered with shame and their heads will be shaved.
19 They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will be an unclean thing. Their silver and gold will not be able to save them in the day of the LORD's wrath. They will not satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it, for it has made them stumble into sin.
20 They were proud of their beautiful jewelry and used it to make their detestable idols and vile images (LAVISH KINGDOM HALLS, ASSEMBLY HALLS). Therefore I will turn these into an unclean thing for them.

*****************
21 I will hand it all over as plunder to foreigners and AS LOOT TO THE WICKED OF THE EARTH, and they will defile it.
22 I will turn my face away from them, and they will desecrate my treasured place; robbers will enter it and desecrate it.
****************

23 "Prepare chains, because the land is full of bloodshed and the city is full of violence.
24 I WILL BRING THE MOST WICKED OF THE NATIONS to take possession of their houses; I will put an end to the pride of the mighty, and their sanctuaries will be desecrated.

25 When terror comes, they will seek peace, but there will be none.

EVEN THE GREAT WISDOM OF "YOU KNOW" - THE PROPHET, WILL NOT HELP (Please consider next verse)

26 Calamity upon calamity will come, and rumor upon rumor. They will try to get a vision from the prophet; the teaching of the law by the priest will be lost, as will the counsel of the elders.

27 The king will mourn, the prince will be clothed with despair, and the hands of the people of the land will tremble. I will deal with them according to their conduct, and BY THEIR OWN STANDARDS I WILL JUDGE THEM. Then they will know that I am the LORD."

bjc

19

My mom's circuit was disbanded

by RunningMan in

jw
friends

well, i found out yesterday that the circuit that my mother attends will cease to exist as of this summer.

the circuit has existed pretty much since the beginning of time.

due to low attendance, and gradual drying up of all jw's in rural saskatchewan, they are closing one or two congregations every year.

bjc2012

Jack2,

perhaps this is a drying up of the waters,

Does that mean that you believe them to be Babylon the Great?

bjc

61

How many found the REAL truth from the internet?

by Leander in

jw
friends

if it was'nt for the internet i would still be stuck in the endless cycle of drone like meeting attendance and field service.

(technically i'm still in but not for long) i'm really glad that some ex-jws took the time to speak about the real truth.

for the longest time i always thought that what i was taught was correct, i never even felt the need to question it or validate it with actual facts.

bjc2012

You Know,

Please check out this thread.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=26649&site=3#340259

bjc

18

How would you counter these common JW arguments?

by Leander in

jw
friends

as i mentioned before in previous posts i'm trying to prepare myself for an exit of the borg.

so what i've been doing over the last few days is thinking of ways to counter the questions that i know will be directed to me.

in particular how would you go about responding to the following questions?.

bjc2012

Leander,

The only reason that you need for leaving should be that you are following Jesus' admonition recorded at Matthew 24:15,16, which reads: Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains." You can show them WT articles that proclaim the UN to be the 'disgusting thing." You might then ask them if it is true that the UN is the 'disgusting thing' then how would they explain the Watchtower Society becoming an NGO in association with the UN for nearly ten years. They will probably give you the library card explanation. You could counter with the thought that no matter what the explanation is, any association with the UN is wrong especially since they condemn every other religion for doing this very thing. Therefore, in your opinion, this association constitutes what Jesus was warning his followers about and that you are going to follow his advise and leave now as you don't want to wait until they 'place the beast' as it would be too late to leave then. You do not need to answer any other questions as you've already given them a scriptural reason for leaving. If you need any information on the UN situation, you can find it all on the Scandals forum.

bjc

3

Theocratic War Strategy - UN

by anglise in

this is a direct quote from the guardian newspaper today (8th oct 01):.

in an internal document, the wtbts describes its policy as a theocratic war strategy.

it claims: in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth.

bjc2012

One important point we must remember on this subject is this. The whole premise of using "Theocratic War Strategy" on people is based upon the WTS' concept of what constitutes a "lie" by definition. WTS style "lying". Let's analyze this definition.

The WTS defines a "lie" as follows,

"The opposite of truth. Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is ENTITLED TO KNOW THE TRUTH and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person." (Insight on the Scriptures Vol. II page 244 under subject heading of "Lie".)

So, "Theocratic War Strategy" is used to "deceive" all those who are NOT "entitled to know the truth" about the matter.

Therefore, by this definition, when the Governing Body acted to "deceive" the UN Officials when applying for secret NGO status, while writing articles condemning other religions like the Catholics against such a practice as being idolatry, they were not really "lying" at all. At least, according to what "they" [WTS] call a lie.

That's how they see it.

However, contrary to this original premise, we notice when the real heat was put on them (by the Guardian News and others) say, in the UN Library Card Defense which is obviously a falsehood (lie), the Governing Body brazenly told a OUTRIGHT FALSEHOOD to all 90+ branch offices without hesitation. The vicious falsehood came in the form of the "Library Card" Defense, an official statement, released by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses on November 1, 2001.

In doing this, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, callously employed "Theocratic War Strategy", or this transparent "deception" to deliberately mislead the entire brotherhood of JWs worldwide.

Now by doing this, the Governing Body violated their "own" warped, disfunctional standards of what a "lie" is by definition, as taught by the the so-called F&DS in the printed publications.

Because of this action, all sincere JWs, that is even those who subscribe to the theory of "Theocratic War Strategy" presently, must ask themselves the following questions about this "library card" defense fiasco:

According to the WTS definition mentioned above of a "Lie" in the printed publications, aren't the brothers "entitled to know the truth" about the matter?

It is a fact, the printed publications clearly teach, if those who are "entitled to know" are purposely deceived by such a statement, then it is a "Lie" by definition. And we would have to say the spiritual brothers are certainly "entitled to know the truth", aren't they? Therefore, the "Library Card" Defense, is indeed a vicious "lie", told to mislead those that "are entitled to know", the spiritual brothers of the JW Organization. The statement becomes an evil statement intented to "deceive" those "entitled to know". Just like or comparable to what is customarily employed by the original "deceiver", the "father of the lie", Satan -- is it not? (John 8:44)

bjc

You Know and the "Presence of Christ"...

by bjc2012 in

regarding the date of 1914 and the "presence of christ" starting at that time, you know made the following comment, .

nevertheless, while it is obvious to me that the kingdom of the world was not given to christ in 1914, or any time since then, i am not willing to discard what appears to me to be a mountain of evidence that christ's parousia has been ongoing since that time.. comment made march 31, 2002 at this link:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=24763&site=3.

bjc2012

Regarding the date of 1914 and the "presence of Christ" starting at that time, You Know made the following comment,

Nevertheless, while it is obvious to me that the kingdom of the world was NOT given to Christ in 1914, or any time since then, I am not willing to discard what appears to me to be a mountain of evidence that Christ's parousia has been ongoing since that time.

Comment made March 31, 2002 at this link:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=24763&site=3

Key rebuttal Question or thought:

If this is so, then Christ "returns" or has been "present" AS WHAT, since 1914? In what official capacity, has he been in his invisible "presence" since 1914?

(Surely not as "king" since he, as you've clearly said above, receives the "kingdom of the world" much later. -- Rev. 11:15)

For a followup discussion on 1914 versus the first century kingship of Jesus, see the following link:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=26176&site=3

bjc

13

China & India Lack of JW Activity

by invisible in

jw
friends

if there god is supposed to be the all-powerful, backing their organisation fully, men being led by god's spirit etc, then what of the lack of activity within china which has in excess of a billion inhabitants?

is their god not partial to the chinese?

what of india also?

bjc2012

And if they didn't count the missionaries they sent to these countries as publishers, then the ratio would probably be higher that it currently is.

bjc

22

What is the most unBiblical teaching of the JWs?

by jerome in

it has been said that the jws hold to many beliefs that are unnsupported scripturally and inforce many 'unwritten' rules which they refer to as 'principles'.. i would like to start off the thread with what i think is the most important unbiblical teaching that they need to promote inorder to exist.. the watchtower teaches that "a prophet is able to make mistakes while he is speaking for god and still be considered as true.

mind you that these are not slips of the tounge but doctrines and predictions that have been promoted for years and have only been modified only after the watchtower had no choice but to change them.. this in my opinion is the most unscriptural teaching that the watchtower promotes.

if it werent for this teaching then the watchtower would most definately have to be marked as a false prophet!

bjc2012

Jerome,

When you expose the error of the 1914 teaching, the whole "house of cards" comes tumbling down, including the F&DS teaching and the authority therof. (Matt. 24:45) Check out this link.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=26176&site=3

bjc