OldSoul

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Posts by OldSoul

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  33

  New JW relationship

  by dougpotts in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  can someone explain fully the restrictions that a jw must accept when dating or trying to date a person not of the same faith - protestant.

  can she still date.

  is marriage permitted even though objected too by jw.

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  OldSoul

  Doug,

  There was no rebuke intended, but you summed up my point beautifully.

  Religeon is a narrow definition whereby human groups conform to their own ideas of the laws of god. Faith is all encompasing.

  Nicely done.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  20

  The Listener Needs Advice - QUICK

  by TheListener in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i need this advice before my spouse gets back from the meeting (1 hour tonight).. ok,.

  here's the lowdown:.

  if you've been following my story through various posts for about the last year you know that i've recently stepped aside as an elder and have been quietly fading.. i go to meetings sporadically.

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  OldSoul

  You're welcome, Listener (Agent 014 ). Anytime. We UBMs are all in this together.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  33

  New JW relationship

  by dougpotts in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  can someone explain fully the restrictions that a jw must accept when dating or trying to date a person not of the same faith - protestant.

  can she still date.

  is marriage permitted even though objected too by jw.

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  OldSoul

  Elders- what counter balance is there to control the abuse of power by the elder or elders.

  Other elders. They police each other, too. At least, they are supposed to.

  Say he is unmarried but attracted to a JW wife of non JW. As there is no control by congregation, what defence against does the wife have against that interest- or does she have to just accept that interest.

  No. She does not have to accept such interest. In fact, she would be strongly encouraged to knee him in the groin and bloody his nose if he tried something like that. We are talking about abuse of power and authority in the context of religious oppression and repression of freedom of expression. No one would have physical authority over your JW wife.

  Why does wife have to have separate meetings within church without husband.

  You could go with her, but you would have to sit through JW meetings. I was saying that a non-JW husband would likely not waste his time at 3 meetings per week and riding around out in field service without being able to get out of the car unless they all stopped for a break.

  The husband must wonder what the wife is saying to her faith in private and lead to lack of confidence in marriage.

  Yes, I wonder what the elders and others in the congregation are saying to my wife that will lead her to a lack of confidence in our marriage. I have instructed the elders not to speak to my wife regarding our relationship and to ask her no questions about me or my activities. They have repeatedly failed to honor this demand.

  Confidence in the marriage must be shattered if the wife does report the husband. Can she be trusted by the husband again.

  I trust my wife implicitly. I also know her, thoroughly. I know they have deeply ingrained in her a sense of trust in the elders. When they ask her questions, she feels very uncomfortable answering them but she has been "programmed" to do so over many years of indoctrination. I still trust her, I don't fault her because I know where the vile source of the problem actually is.

  Sometimes it must be very difficult for the elder to separate a domestic matter which they should not be part of and spiritual matters - there must be many grey areas. How does the elder ensure he is simply not poking into a private domestic situations

  Elders don't trouble themselves to be certain they are not prying into things that are none of their business. Our sexual tastes have been asked about, our viewing habits (what programs/movies we watch), reading material, music—you name it.

  How can a person kill his wife or children in the name of a simple paragraph in the bible which only talks about eating blood when you place it in context of the other reading in the parapgraph or does it usually not come to that.Is the spouse that unimportant to them when placed against the impotance of their faith.

  Again,it is important to remember that their laws are enforced by threat of Disfellowship, which they equate with a "visible" sign of God's displeasure in their choices. When they began to allow blood fractions I don't know of a single Witness whose conscience failed to suddenly feel fine about accepting them. These Witnesses who believed "God would be displeased with them" for accepting fractions the week before, suddenly had no qualms of conscience about accepting fractions. The only explanation is that conscience is not, and never was, the deterrent at all. Fear of expulsion is the deterrent.

  To illustrate: A Witness believes a Disfellowshipped person will not be resurrected. Dying in a "disapproved" state is a Witness' worst fear. If a Witness male accepts a blood transfusion for his wife she may die anyway, in a "disapproved" state. He also will become "disapproved" through his action. If he were to die before regaining an "approved" state, he would die believing neither he nor his beloved wife would get a resurrection. So, the punishment of not getting everlasting life is used to batter, bruise, and beat the flock into submission to man-made traditions. This same construct applies to explain why Witnesses comply with anything else the Governing Body makes a law about.

  Their interest seems to be their own salvation and interest and ensuring the church expands nothing more. Similary with the problem with blood transfusions their interest lies in ensuring they conform to their faith and by implication their own salvation, as seen by their faith, of themselves rather than helping their family member survive.

  You are getting the correct idea. They say they are helping the community by teaching them about the Bible, but they teach very little of the Bible and a whole lot of man-made traditions and unscriptural doctrines. It seems like you are using "faith" and "religion" interchangably. I believe real "faith" is evident independent of a code of laws from a religious group. If that isn't the case, I don't think it is really "faith," it a false claim of faith.

  Maybe my thinking is distorted in some way.

  No. Your thinking is right on target.

  What balance does the non JW husband have against a mischievious wife simply using the elders to get what she wants in the marriage. What confidence can the husband have in the marriage if he knows he can be reported on any matter by a wife.

  It depends on the wife. In the Governing Body laws, there is no balance against the spiritual authority of the elders for a JW husband, so there would obviously be none for a non-JW husband. The confidence would have to be in the person (the wife) and from that there might be reason for strong confidence in the marriage (as in my case, but I'm a lucky son-of-a-...gun). But if you marry someone who is a JW and who wants to remain a JW you can expect that the elders/Governing Body may hold sway over her thinking and behavior in many areas.

  The elders have NO authority over a non-JW husband, but can heavily influence the success or failure—the delight or misery—of a marriage nonetheless through the exercise of spiritual authority over a JW wife.

  Again, I hope this helps.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  46

  JW's are they really a cult?

  by Evanescence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many people would say they are a cult, what are your reasons for thinking they are a cult?.

  a created a thread a while ago on an idea of what a cult is http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/96309/1.ashx.

  do you think it is the jehovah's witnesses as a whole a cult?

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  OldSoul

  GaryBuss: The Jehovah's Witness people willingly follow suggestions and guidelines made by the The Watch Tower Publishing Corporation to shun and snub designated people. I have no problem with that.

  I have to disagree with you here, GaryBuss. 1) The instructions given regarding shunning are not suggestions, they are orders. 2) Many Witnesses don't willingly follow these orders and risk being caught and similarly shunned by ignoring them. 3) Many of those who do follow the orders, don't do so willingly they do so under compulsion. 4) In the matter of shunning, and in many other respects, the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses uses fear of shunning to enforce its orders, thereby creating coersive force to impose its will and silence individual freedom of expression, and I have a serious problem with that.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  46

  JW's are they really a cult?

  by Evanescence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many people would say they are a cult, what are your reasons for thinking they are a cult?.

  a created a thread a while ago on an idea of what a cult is http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/96309/1.ashx.

  do you think it is the jehovah's witnesses as a whole a cult?

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  OldSoul

  But, "elder" and "ministerial servant" aren't titles of superior positions in the congregation! These are merely servants, shepherds for the protection of the flock. And they will bash any sheep in the head that disagrees (figuratively, of course).

  Because, after all, they are the shepherds, and everyone knows the shepherds get to decide when to cull the owner's flock. Oh, wait. The shepherds don't get to decide that. Especially not if they are sheep, too.

  That there is a distinctly separate class of clergy among Jehovah's Witnesses is not even disputable. Can I, an inactive publisher, give a District Convention part? No. Can I speak for 45 minutes on a given Sunday? No. Can I even freely speak with others in the congregation about my views? No.

  There is also magisterium vested in the Governing Body (operating under the name "Faithful and Discreet Slave").

  Is there secrecy? You bet.

  When was the last time anyone who was not an elder knew why someone from another state was disfellowshipped? Don't talk to them? Why? What did they do? Did they ask questions of the wrong elder body? Did they refuse to stop questioning the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses on some Scriptural point or other? Did they chop up their whole family?

  How can anyone be expected to use their own judgment in whether or not to speak to someone if they have no idea what the person is accused of?

  But there is secrecy in other ways:

  How many Witnesses know what the Governing Body does? How many know how their "Government" makes doctrinal decisions?

  How many know the policies that exist and will be used against them in Judicial Committees?

  Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult, they are not merely cultish.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  30

  Would you contribute to expose the Watchtower?

  by nicolaou in

  1. forum
  2. suggestions

  jost tossing an idea about.

  would anyone be willing to make regular contributions to an 'exposure fund'?.

  it wouldn't be a 'fighting fund', we couldn't hope to compete against watchtower finances or its legal department in that way.

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  OldSoul

  Welcome VelvetFlower,

  I am so glad you have been able to move on. For some of us we are just getting out. Not everyone woke up when you did. Please share your journey to help others.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  21

  An Update

  by MM090503 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some of you may remember me.

  i started posting about a year ago around this time.

  my bf is invovled with the jw's.

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  OldSoul

  Honestly, I don't think JWs are usually bad. I think the policies of the Organization are going to end up hurting you badly. But I can always hope and pray for the best for you.

  Please keep this in mind: the majority of the people with David Koresh weren't bad, and the majority of people Jim Jones convinced to drink poison weren't bad. It was a leadership problem. It was top-down control with no method in place to redress grievances. In politics that is called totalitarianism.

  Whatever you choose, all the best.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  30

  NGO/WTS scandal info sought

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  some questions for someone really clued up on the ngo scandal:

  who was the pr when the society first applied to be an ngo in 1992....milton henschel?

  when did don adams become the president of the wts?

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  OldSoul

  When the Application for Association was first made, F.W. Franz was PR.

  Ciro Aulicino was MR. (http://www.freeminds.org/women/ciro_aulicino_UN.htm) He has not been reassigned, he still serves in the same capacity.

  Don Adams became President in October of 2000.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  20

  how long did it take?

  by mjs mouse, ben in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  newbie here, a lil about me......grew up around the jw religion, never was baptized but i did get to the level of "unbaptized publisher" once, as of now i dont attend any "meetings", but still get the watchtowers and awakes pushed to me by family members.

  it's actually been 3 years since i realized that it wasnt the "truth", even though i've probably have known it all along.

  my question to the groups is, how long did it take you to stop calling it "the truth"?

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  OldSoul

  I use it still, but I envision it this way: The Truth™ (All Rights Reserved, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.).

  When I think of it that way, it makes me giggle. Actually, I am a guy, so I chuckle. Who am I kiddin'? I giggle.
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  12

  Positive thoughts for Cygnus

  by OldSoul in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  cygnus,.

  i know you're going through some rough times.

  you have my thoughts, whether you post or not.. respectfully,.

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  OldSoul

  Cygnus,

  I know you're going through some rough times. You have my thoughts, whether you post or not.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul