Posts by OldSoul

32

Who am I thinking of? Question to all

by Sam the Man in

who am i describing here: .

- i am god made flesh, the saviour and the 'son of god' .

- my father is god and my mother is a mortal virgin.

OldSoul

Well, Kwin was the closest one to #10 that wanted the book. On either side of #10, in fact. So whether by "Price Is Right" rules or not, he should get it since my favo-rite monkey lady doesn't want it.

OldSoul

32

Who am I thinking of? Question to all

by Sam the Man in

who am i describing here: .

- i am god made flesh, the saviour and the 'son of god' .

- my father is god and my mother is a mortal virgin.

OldSoul

Hey, ((((Monkey))))! You don't want a copy? It is a good read. Raises some interesting thoughts, in my opinion.

OldSoul

32

Who am I thinking of? Question to all

by Sam the Man in

who am i describing here: .

- i am god made flesh, the saviour and the 'son of god' .

- my father is god and my mother is a mortal virgin.

OldSoul

Still mulling it over. However, since I have a copy, perhaps I could donate the one from you to the tenth poster on this thread?

lol

OldSoul

32

Who am I thinking of? Question to all

by Sam the Man in

who am i describing here: .

- i am god made flesh, the saviour and the 'son of god' .

- my father is god and my mother is a mortal virgin.

OldSoul

Osiris, Dionysus, Attis, Mithras, Bacchus, Adonis, and/or Jesus. That is, according to Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy.

What do I win?

Respectfully,
OldSoul

63

Can any JW answer OldSoul's 4 questions about JW teachings scripturally?

by kwintestal in

i am waiting for any jehovah's witness to offer support in scripture of these four articles of faith: .

(1) the faithful and discreet slave is a class of people, .

(2) that the holy spirit directs organizations in addition to individuals, .

OldSoul

Kwin,

Shadow has a very busy life outside this forum. Sometimes he takes weeks or months to post again. I suspect that sometimes he runs into things difficult for him to wrangle with internally. He may take hiatuses as a coping mechanism.

Respectfully,
OldSoul

163

The Bible...trust in Faith or trust in Fact?

by jgnat in

i read the most extraordinary claim the other day.

"the bible is factual.

" i wondered, how could the speaker possibly back up such a claim?

OldSoul

Ross,

I expect much more than tuppence from you. Don't let me down.

OldSoul

23

Great Crowd vs. Other Sheep

by prophecor in

would someone briefly help me understand the divide that exist between the great crowd and the remnant, 144,000 who go to heaven?

what scriptural backing does the society use to justify their position that they are the only ones who are able to enjoy a covenant relationship with jesus christ, where those of the " great crowd " are only granted a relationship through extension through the 144,000?.

i've been around the truth for a large portion of my life, never really knowing this was an issue.

OldSoul

Archie,

To understand the problem with that teaching, you'd have to first examine the context of John 10:16.

The reason for using John as the starting point is because Revelations was given in signs and the meaning can be freely interpretted by whatever human is doing the reading. With the book of John, we have a historical context to appeal to for the proper understanding.

John 10:16 is part of an answer Jesus was giving to a question he was asked. The question is found at John 9:40. The question was raised when Jesus sought out a formerly blind man who was expelled from the synagogue (disfellowshipped). Some Pharisees had expelled the man, but Jesus sought him out. Pharisees traveling with Jesus, apparently trying to catch him in some sin, took offense to something Jesus said and asked, "We are not blind also, are we?"

Jesus answer begins at John 9:41 and ends at John 10:18. Keep in mind that the context of the discussion means Jesus was speaking in answer to the Pharisees, not to his disiples.

When he says, "I know my sheep and my sheep know me," Jesus is apparently claiming this expelled man as a sheep of his. How would the Pharisees have understood his comment at John 10:16? Well, when he said, "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold," what did he mean? Which fold, literally "yard", did the sheep he currently had come from?

The sheep he had already brought certainly did not come from anointed ones as opposed to an earthly class, the Holy Spirit had not been poured out yet. There was no "heavenly class" yet, even by the current teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses. What could he possibly have meant by this statement? He was talking to Pharisees and, at that time, he was only bringing Jews with him. Which "yard" could he have meant?

Then he said the other sheep would also be brought with him, and they would become one flock under one shepherd. So whatever Jesus meant by the "other sheep" would not eventually lead to two groups, he specifies that it would result in one group. And it would be a group made up of sheep from two different sources, not with two different destinies.

The Gentiles were the other sheep. Heck, they still are. So the Great Crowd of Revelations does not correspond to them at all.

Respectfully,
OldSoul

90

What would you have done?

by defd in

jw
friends

what would you have done back in the 1st century when jesus came on the earthly stage and started christianity.

would you have became his follower?

how about after he left the earth and christianity began to spread by means of the apostles, would you have been involved in the many congregations that were started throughout the area?

OldSoul

defd,

I have noticed in this thread that some make comparison with the JWS and Catholics. They ask whats the difference. For one WE Worship the one and only true God Jehovah, THEY DO NOT. I know this, I use to be a Catholic. The Catholics pray to Saints and use the Saints as Mediators to God. WE do not. We pray to Jehovah through the proper Mediator, Jesus. The Catholics use IDOLS in there worship. They Light candles before them and kiss there toes and pray to them. We do not. I can go on and on. There is NO comparison .

Okay. WE worship Jehovah, they do not. They use IDOLS in their worship, we do not.

They pray to saints as mediators to God, we have the Faithful and Discreet Slave (a.k.a. the Holy Ones, a.k.a. "Saints") as our mediator to God. Or did you not know that according to the CURRENT CCoJW stand, 1 Timothy 2:5 applies to the Faithful and Discreet Slave alone? They learn from Jesus, by means of Holy Spirit. We learn from them, by means of publications. But, don't take my word for it:

w98 2/1 p. 13 Jehovah Is a God of Covenants
This is the new covenant that Jesus referred to on Nisan 14, 33 C.E. On that occasion, he revealed that the promised covenant was about to be concluded between his disciples and Jehovah, with Jesus as mediator. (1 Corinthians 11:25; 1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 12:24) Through this new covenant, Jehovah's promise to Abraham was to have a more glorious and lasting fulfillment, as we will see in the following article. (defd, I encourage you to read the entire article and the followup article, for context)

w93 1/1 p. 5 New Creations Brought Forth!In the year 29 of our Common Era, the perfect man, Jesus, presented himself to be baptized by John at the Jordan River. "After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God's spirit coming upon him. Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: 'This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.'" (Matthew 3:16, 17) Thus, the man Christ Jesus was the first of a new creation, anointed to do God's will. Later, on the basis of his sacrificial death, Jesus became the Mediator of a new covenant between God and a select group of men. Each of these has become "a new creation," begotten by God's spirit to a heavenly hope, with the prospect of ruling with Jesus in his heavenly Kingdom.---2 Corinthians 5:17; 1 Timothy 2:5, 6; Hebrews 9:15.

These articles demonstrate that the latest understanding of the mediation referred to at 1 Timothy 2:5. You mentioned "teaching false doctrine." Did the older men in Jerusalem teach false doctrine? Did Paul or Apollos teach false doctrine? Or did some from within the congregation teach false doctrine? They did not have to deal with false doctrine being promulgated from the Apostles and older men in Jerusalem.

And Paul makes very clear that true Christians should never endure that. (Galatians 1:6-9; 2:1-5, 11-14) When Paul suspected that might be happening, he went to Jerusalem to straighten them out privately. When Peter, one of Jesus' closest companions, came to Antioch Paul resisted him face to face and publicly chastised him. Based on what? Cephas was not walking straight according to the Good News. Was Paul speaking abusively of a glorious one?

Lastly, the Questions From Readers that established current dogma relative to the mediator:

w89 8/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers
Is Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind, since 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 speaks of him as the "mediator" who "gave himself a corresponding ransom for all"?

I won't post it here. Look it up. If you are sincere, you will not be afraid to honestly evaluate whether your religion's dogma is in accordance with Scripture.

As to your style of argument, you bring up doctrine that the Catholics differ with Witnesses on and claim some sort of higher ground due to the fact that the Witnesses may have gotten some things right. The Catholics do the same. Catholics who remain Catholics often fail to look at the things they have gotten wrong.

How do you know that they shouldn't use idols? How do you know that we should worship Jehovah? How do you know they should not pray to saints? From your study of the Bible, right? Well, I am asking you to share your Scriptural evidence that the Faithful and Discreet Slave is a class of people that has authority, as God's Spirit-Directed (Spirit Inspired) organization, to teach "new light" to the other sheep. If you don't have such evidence, on what do you base your belief in this doctrine?

BTW, Catholics look at our doctrine of "other sheep" and compare that to the Scriptures. It doesn't measure up. When Jesus stated: "I have other sheep which are not of this fold," he was speaking to the Pharisees just after seeking out a man who had been expelled from the synagogue (disfellowshipped). Jesus sought the man out. Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are the only religions I know of that take that Scripture out of context. To my knowledge, every other religion teaches that Jesus was comparing the Jews and Gentiles. Basically, the Pharisees had just made a Gentile out of the man Jesus healed. Jesus was trying to explain that the way would be opened for Gentiles to become one flock with the Jews, under one shepherd.

So the Catholics can forgive themselves for the false doctrines they teach when comparing themselves to JWs by saying, "They teach that 1935 was the cutoff point for the heavenly calling, WE don't. They teach that anyone after that time is going to live on earth, WE don't. They issue false prophecies for year after year and they never come true, WE don't. They say that Jesus is only a mediator for less than 8,000 of their number, WE don't." Your logic is flawed. The presence of truth (even if it really is truth) does not excuse the presence of falsehoods.

This brings up an interesting question: On what do Jehovah's Witnesses base the teaching that the heavenly calling had a cutoff point (except for replacements) in 1935? I have scoured the Scriptures, I have scoured the CD-ROM, and I find nothing on which to base that dogma. I suspect that the authority of the Faithful and Discreet Slave to reveal divinely inspired "new light" was invoked when it became apparent that there would be more adherents than the 144,000 doctrine could account for. I can tell you this, so far in our conversations I do not believe you will be able to find the answers to any of my questions. I doubt you will even try. The blind Pharisees are towing you behind, having eyes you refuse to see.

You have been lulled into a coma. I truly hope you wake up. I have a feeling you and I could be friends.

Respectfully,
OldSoul

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