afin: Actually minimus ... I'm not critical of this site ...I'm just a lurker you invited in ...
So, a f i n, did you read the instructions from the Slave that I left for you? In case you missed them, here you are: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/84617/1393934/post.ashx#1393934
comments you will not hear at the february 6, 2005 wt study (january 1, 2005 issue)
review comments
will be in black and parentheses ().
blondie: That is pretty much the end of paragraph 7. I did state in the beginning that this is abbreviated. I don't think I intentionally misrespresented the material.
Oh crap! I think I just realized where the misunderstanding came in! Blondie, I wasn't saying YOU chopped off the rest of a paragraph, I was saying THEY chopped off the rest of a paragraph, from the Bible. In Philippians 2, they used a teensy piece of one verse and applied it absolutely out of context.
If that was where the misunderstanding started, I apologize. This thing has been eating at me all day.
it's has been a hard few months for me.
i am just so sad i don't know where to begin.
i feel so lost in this world and i have lost all my friends and i feel so alone.
I try not and bring anyone down
((((Brooke))))
My wife was in a similar state, wishing someone else would kill her, more than 50% of the time until she started "waking up." Now when I remind her that she can't afford to concern herself with my reactions to how she is feeling or what she says, she is able to speak freely and untwist her knots in a comfortable setting with someone she trusts to have her best interests at heart.
Please, even if you have to force yourself, get yourself past the feeling that you have to look out for everyone else's feelings. Once you are well, whole again, there will be plenty of time for you to concern yourself with others and help them. That is the best way you could ever repay the kindnesses done for you.
My prayers and thoughts are with you.
Respectfully,
OldSoul
some got baptized as kids.
others---a lot older.
at whatever age you were, did you really know what you were getting into?
I thought so, but I was totally surprised by the new questions. I answered yes, but it felt like the floor gave way beneath me as I heard them read. There was no mention of the Bible or the operation of God's holy spirit on me, personally. It was a scary feeling, saying "Yes" to different questions than I'd ever heard and not comfortable saying, "Stop, wait a minute fellas. I want to consider the fine print, first. I'm not sure just what I'm agreeing to here."
Respectfully,
OldSoul
comments you will not hear at the february 6, 2005 wt study (january 1, 2005 issue)
review comments
will be in black and parentheses ().
(((Blondie))),
I did state in the beginning that this is abbreviated. I don't think I intentionally misrespresented the material.
I am not certain whether that was intended for me or not, but my tag-along isn't even attempting to replicate what you do. I have neither the time nor the patience. All I wanted to do was a full exposure of one or two thoughts per week, really dig in to small chunks and show the mechanics of how they mess with people's heads.
Full props to you for doing what you do. The work and mental energy involved is very impressive to me. If you would rather I start a new thread each week for "This Week In Sophistry," I don't mind at all. I asked permission last week.
I'm sorry if I stepped on your toes in any way.
Respectfully,
OldSoul
comments you will not hear at the february 6, 2005 wt study (january 1, 2005 issue)
review comments
will be in black and parentheses ().
Welcome to "This Week In Sophistry" where I will attempt to focus a lot of attention on at least one glaring flaw in reasoning.
This week, the spotlight of incredulity shines on paragraphs 7, 8, 11 of the January 1, 2005 Watchtower article entitled, "Hold to the Pattern Jesus Set"
7 How can a person overcome pride and conduct himself "with lowliness of mind considering that others are superior" to him? (Philippians 2:3) He needs to view himself as Jehovah does. Jesus explained the right attitude when he said: "You, also, when you have done all the things assigned to you, say, 'We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.'" (Luke 17:10) Remember, nothing we can do compares with what Jesus did. Yet, Jesus was humble. 8 Further, we can ask for Jehovah's help to cultivate the proper view of ourselves. Like the psalmist, we can pray: "Teach me goodness, sensibleness and knowledge themselves, for in your commandments I have exercised faith." (Psalm 119:66) Jehovah will help us to develop a sensible, balanced view of ourselves, and he will bless us for our humble attitude. (Proverbs 18:12) Jesus said: "Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." ? Matthew 23:12
"How can a person overcome pride and conduct himself 'with lowliness of mind considering that others are superior' to him?" Excellent question, Faithful and Discreet Slave ... er, um ... Governing Body! Let's see if the context, i.e. the rest of the paragraph you chopped off, answers the question. I'll bet not, since you would never stoop to something other than letting the Scriptures speak for themselves. But I'll look anyway, on account'a I'm noble-minded and all don'tchya know.
Philippians 2:1-4 If, then, there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any sharing of spirit, if any tender affections and compassions, 2 make my joy full in that YOU are of the same mind and have the same love, being joined together in soul, holding the one thought in mind, 3 doing nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with lowliness of mind considering that the others are superior to YOU, 4 keeping an eye, not in personal interest upon just YOUR own matters, but also in personal interest upon those of the others.
Interesting! Now it seems that the counsel was specifically for those who were doing things out of one of two motives. "Contentiousness" or "exhibiting an often perverse and wearisome tendency to quarrels and disputes" (Merriam-Webster online www.m-w.com) and "egotism" or "an exaggerated sense of self-importance" (Merriam-Webster online www.m-w.com). Obviously, this counsel has a much more limited scope than is expressed in this week's Watchtower Study. However, the scripture is partially quoted and so we know the key point the Faithful and Discreet Slave? (All Rights Reserved, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.) wanted drawn from it. As plodding sheep, let us not examine the Scripture thoroughly to see whether these things are so.
Sophists frequently use familiar ideas taken out of context to create the illusion of sound reasoning. One of the first things I broke with the Channel? (Patent Pending, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.) over was the absence of education regarding proper pride. I do not dispute that they mention the existence of proper pride, but nowhere do they teach this vital concept. However, there are reams of "educational materials" available to assist ones in overcoming the sin of pride, with no distinction made between proper and improper.
The conclusion reached by the sophistically inductive reasoning is ... you are wrongfully proud, whoever you are that believes you are better than nothing at all. You should view yourself as Jehovah views you. Of course, they don't dare risk offending everyone in the congregation by saying "you" so they invent a non-existent person that this Scripture applies to, and they call it "he." As we discussed last week, the sophist always gains the advantage when an imaginary third person or group is introduced in a believable way. Each reader now gets to apply their own imagination and begins working with the sophist to create the illusion that this counsel is beneficial and so very needed by the congregation. This surely is food at the proper time, because there are so many imaginary people that need this food.
So, instead of "You need to ..." we read, "He needs to view himself as Jehovah does." Surely, the sophist will now explain how Jehovah view His friends, who work so hard shoulder-to-shoulder with the Son in accomplishing His will. Ah, that would be nice, but no. That is not what the sophist does. The sophist takes the imaginary person and now invites introspection. The sophist would not dare risk offending the sheep by saying "you" so they let Jesus say it instead. "You, also, when you have done all the things assigned to you ..." It is beautiful in a sick and twisted sort of way. Easily detectable, once you know what to look for, but if you go to this meeting listen to the comments and you will find how effective this sophistry really is.
Anyway, you need to say, "We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done." Lest we think this counsel does not apply to the Faithful and Discreet Slave? (All Rights Reserved, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.) the next sentence put us in our place. "Remember, nothing WE can do compares with what Jesus did." It would be nice if they taught that consistently, but unfortunately they teach that our ministry has far exceeded Jesus', and that the miracles performed by Jesus have been dwarfed by those performed through his disciples - both in the 1st Century and in our day.
In the next paragraph we are admonished that "Jehovah will help us to develop a sensible, balanced view of ourselves, and he will bless us for our humble attitude." Aw. That's nice of Jehovah to help us understand that we are good-for-nothing. I believe it is an absolute outrage that this self-aggrandizing Channel? (Patent Pending, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.) presumes to tell me how my Heavenly Father views me, and an even greater travesty that they state that He views me as good-for-nothing, or that He will help me come to that conclusion. Here is a comment you will not hear, but that everyone will leave thinking: "Jehovah views each and every one of us as good-for-nothing, and if we have trouble believing that He will help us come to that understanding."
Luke 17:10 produces some particularly vivid reactions in me. Much of the angst of my youth was directly related to this sophistic application of this verse. My father abused this verse in the same way for many years. Yet, here is his master, the Faithful and Discreet Slave? (All Rights Reserved, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.) using it in the identical way he did. As a club to beat the pride out of those unruly sheep. But, I digress slightly, let us press on ... for I wish to discuss "maturity."
I'm not done yet, but thought you guys might enjoy the nibblets so far. Need to accompany my Lady to the grocers.
We accept you as you are FIN. You may even get a normal life if you stay with us. We'll never change our feelings of affection for you no matter how you turn out.
Honesty, I know you had the best intentions but if afin turns out to be a pedophile, male or female, I will not have affection for her/him/it.
So, afin, the door of our tender affections is open wide. If you are cramped for room, it is not within us.
who woulda thunk?
"and if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
leviticus 20.14. sick bastards!.
I wonder if the Israelites used to taunt the Ammonites and the Moabites with cries of "Inbreds! Inbreds!"
who woulda thunk?
"and if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
leviticus 20.14. sick bastards!.
Oh but if your name is LOt, you can boink both your daughters and say you had a few to many highballs (pun intended) and not be BBQed.
His daughters did not report it to the authorities and thus brought no reproach on Jehovah's name. He had trained them well.
i personally feel they will have to "adjust" the fds doctrine.
the tricky thing is that the fds (whoever they are) won't approve this change while they're still alive.
they don't care, they subconsciously feel it's their end anyway and they won't undermine their doctrinal position having lost all corporate power.. so who will send this beam of new light?
Next new light?
Well, the FDS went from being a prophet, with all the authority and accountability of a prophet, to not being a prophet but with all the authority of a prophet. The next step would be for them to admit that the FDS is not anointed but is being used as Jehovah's channel anyway.
