Posts by bluesapphire

36

The Pope a JW...!!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

most of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.

i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.

it was a shock to my.

bluesapphire

Hi Ozzie:

For starters:

35-90 A.D. -- Little formal sense of a Canon of Scripture

90-160 A.D. -- New Testament not clearly distinguished from other Christian writings. I.e., Gospels accepted but not by all; Acts scarcely known or quoted. Pauline Corpus generally accepted by 130 but not as "scripture"; Phillipians, 1 Timothy rejected; 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon rejected; Hebrews rejected; James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter accepted but not as "scripture"; 1,2,3 John not canonical; 1 John disputed; Jude not canonical; Revelation not canonical.

160-250 A.D. -- Awareness of Canon begins toward end of 2nd century. Tertullian and Clement of Alexandria first use the phrase "New Testament"; Gospels accepted; Acts gradually accepted; Pauline corpus accepted with some exceptions; 2 Timothy, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, Not accepted as "scripture"; Jude and Revelation gradually accepted as canonical; Epistle of Barnabas, Shepherd of Hermas, The Didache, Apocalypse of Peter, Acts of Paul, Gospel of Hebrews all accepted and quoted as scripture.

190 A.D. -- Canon excludes Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter. INCLUDES Apocalypose of Peter, Wisdom of Solomon.

250-325 -- Catholic epistles and Revelation still being disputed.

325 -- Council of Nicaea questions canonicity of James, 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John, 3 John and Jude. KEEP IN MIND THAT THE WTS claims the Church is completely APOSTATE by this time yet there is still no "Bible"

325-397 -- Council of Carthage. Athanasius (Definitely a Catholic) first lists our present 27 books of the New Testament in 367. Disputes still persist concerning several books, almost right up until 397, when the Canon is AUTHORITATIVELY closed.

My question to you is this: If the Church was apostate, why accept their authority on the Canon? Why not develop our own Canon? Also, up until this time, WHO wrote, protected, preserved, duplicated, read, promulgated the 27 books that made it into the Canon?

Like I said before, the Bible is a product of the Catholic Church -- unless you have something to share that I am not aware of. In which case, I'm ready, willing and able to give it a look. :-)

Love,
Bluey

10

JW Pedophile Hits Close to Home

by Amazing in

this is brief because family members have asked that i remain low-key for the present when on public forums regarding this specific case.

i have provided greater details in a private forum.. many of you may recall my justice series on h20 where i dealt with the issue of pedophiles among jws, often drawn from my experience as an elder.

while serving as an elder i did object to the failure of elders to report pedophiles to the authorities.

bluesapphire

All I can say is Thank you for sharing. The time has come!

36

The Pope a JW...!!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

most of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.

i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.

it was a shock to my.

bluesapphire

Ozzie: Let's bring it up to the top. I'm interested to see what evidence you have that those who compiled the "table of contents" of the bible were not Catholic.

Thanks. Blue.

32

Need to vent... advice is welcome

by SlayerLayer in

jw
friends

when i was 13, all of the other kids in my congregation were taking home school, getting them out of the "bad association" in public school.

they talked me into it too.. of course, at 13 trying to get me to actually do the schooling was a feat that no one could master.. i worked for a brother in the cong.

full time, and never finished the schooling.. so...flash forward.

bluesapphire

His name is the same as yours too. Forgot to mention.

32

Need to vent... advice is welcome

by SlayerLayer in

jw
friends

when i was 13, all of the other kids in my congregation were taking home school, getting them out of the "bad association" in public school.

they talked me into it too.. of course, at 13 trying to get me to actually do the schooling was a feat that no one could master.. i worked for a brother in the cong.

full time, and never finished the schooling.. so...flash forward.

bluesapphire

Hi. My husband had the exact same thing happen to him. 13 taken out of school to home-school. Yeah right! His pioneer mom was out knocking doors - too busy to educate her son. Now he's 28 and has to work as a painter. Not that big a deal. Where else can you make 50K and only work 10 mos. out of the year. But he HATES it. Why don't you go get your GED? I keep telling my husband that but he is afraid.

Don't be afraid! Just do it. You can get another great job in your same line of work and you wont have to lie. It'll take a few months. No big deal. I think you should get your GED.

Good luck!

21

Disfellowshipping Doesn't Sever Family Ties?

by tergiversator in

jw
friends

"disfellowshipping does not sever family ties.".

or so claims the watchtower's official faq.

so, i would like to take an informal poll: how has being disfellowshippid/ disassociated/ inactive/ just having doubts affected relations with your family?

bluesapphire

Emyrose: I think you nailed it on the head. First of all, she was more open minded with her educated mind. Secondly, she ended up leaving too -- precisely the reason WHY the Society enforces shunning -- because its teachings cannot be defended and so inevitably everybody would leave. Self-perpetuation is its MAIN concern. To hell with the families!

21

Disfellowshipping Doesn't Sever Family Ties?

by tergiversator in

jw
friends

"disfellowshipping does not sever family ties.".

or so claims the watchtower's official faq.

so, i would like to take an informal poll: how has being disfellowshippid/ disassociated/ inactive/ just having doubts affected relations with your family?

bluesapphire

Okay. I'll tell you my answer:

I am the oldest of six children. I was the first to join the cult seven or so years ago. Three years later I dragged in my baby sister. She is ten years younger than I. I ran home from school every day when she was born to take care of her. I loved her so much. We were always so close. That's why I had so much influence on her and she followed me into the cult.

Unfortunately, she went in harder and deeper than I ever did. Plus, she hasn't suffered the bad experiences that I did so, needless to say, she didn't understand why I became so "weak in the truth."

Well, after I found out it was all a big con I thought our relationship was stable enough that she could trust me just enough to look into what I was finding. It was a huge slap in the face - although I now understand - that she chose to believe I was a rebellious apostate, rather than a sincere person just wanting to know the truth.

So now she greets me when we are in front of my "worldly" relatives. Where we used to talk about every other day, I'm lucky if I talk to her once or twice a year - and always on a superficial level - mere cordialities.

A couple of weeks ago she missed me so she called. I was in the shower and got her message which said, "I missed you. I hope you call me. I want to keep in touch." My heart began pounding. I love her so much. But by the time I called her back she had cooled off and the conversation was dead.

Did they sever these family ties? Technically - No. But then again I'm not DF'd. Did they RUIN the family bond? Absolutely, positively YES. They ruined all there was to our relationship.

Have I committed any serious sins? No. My only sin was no longer believing the speculations of a bunch of old men in New York whom she has never met. She chooses to believe them instead of me, even though I've never lied to her before.

All I can say now is Thank God I didn't suck in the rest of my family. We are such a close family. There is so much love. She misses out on all the family get-togethers. When I was still a witness we used to talk about how much we missed our family when we knew they were getting together. We wanted to be there but felt we needed to do it for Jehovah. So I know she misses us. I know it hurts her heart when she knows I'm there too now and she's not. But at the same time she thinks I chose them and became disloyal to Jehovah.

So sad.

36

The Pope a JW...!!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

most of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.

i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.

it was a shock to my.

bluesapphire

Julie, I was going to make similar corrections as you did and am glad I read on before I did because it would have been redundant.

I have come to the conclusion that the WTS is mimicking the Catholic Church ON PURPOSE. I believe they view it as their competition and they know that most of the potential converts will come via the Catholic Church. That's why they focus on predominantly Catholic countries and ignore countries such as China.

The main reason most JW's are ex-Catholics though is the simple fact that most Christians are Catholics. Therefore, there is the bigger pool of water to fish in (more dense). There is little difference between JW's and Fundamentalists here. Fundies also fish in the Catholic pool.

The decision you ultimately (not to believe in the Bible or be Christian) made makes more sense to me than becoming a member of any sort of Bible-thumping Christian sect. After all, if I'm going to believe in the Bible, then why would I reject the teachings of the Church who gave me the Bible. What people don't understand is that the Bible is a product of the Catholic Church. Here they are trying to build a religion out of the Bible when historically it was the other way around.

I decided to become Catholic. It's my choice based on the research I have done about what Christianity is. IF I'm going to be Christian, I'm going to be Catholic. But the Church doesn't teach that you have to be Catholic to be saved. It teaches that even Pagans and Atheists can receive eternal salvation.

I think people spend more time hating what they BELIEVE the Catholic Church is instead of what it REALLY is. And I used to be into apologetics but now I think it's a waste of time. I'm not going to defend the RCC. I'm just pointing out the historical facts.

Granted, there are plenty true things anti-Catholics can bring up to criticize the Cathollic Church, why the WTS continues to perpetuate falsehoods is beyond me. Well, not really. They do it on purpose because it serves their purpose.

Somebody in another post commented that the WTS is in the business of self-perpetuation. That sums it up period! The Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years. If and when the WTS (not to mention these other sects) has been around for 2000 years, it too will be guilty of as many, if not more, sins as the RCC and there will surely be some other new sect out there fishing in the pool of the WTS.

24

I ate meat on Friday

by chester in

jw
friends

i was raised as a catholic.

it used to be considered a sin to eat meat on friday.

even for a little boy who was at the age of reason.. i remember very well the time when i was in the second grade about the age of 7 that i did eat a hot dog on a friday.. i knew that it was a sin but i ate it anyway.

bluesapphire

Hi Chester. I enjoyed your post and am very glad you have decided to think for yourself. One clarification though: I was brought up Catholic too and was NEVER told that to eat meat on Friday was a "mortal sin." I always understood it was a "discipline" or a "sacrifice" not to do it but not that it was a requirement. It was encouraged by my parents but not required. I went to Paroquial school and not even the nuns and priests ever demanded it.

The same thing with clergy not being allowed to marry. The Church's official teaching is that it is a choice. If a man decides to be fully ordained as a priest, he makes the choice not to get married. It is a discipline. If he wants to get married, he can serve as a deacon. One day this may change but as a woman, I would hate to be married to a priest. It would be as bad as being married to an elder. I would always have to be competing for his attention and his time.

Anyways, I'm not here to defend the Catholic Church. I just wanted to clarify these two things.

17

WT using Satan`s courts again

by JWD in

jw
friends

i never cease to be amazed at the blatant double standard the org.has.

toward satan`s world.while condemning it on the one hand,they seem to.

have no reservations about using it fully when it seems advantagous.. let me pass along two recent court cases here in japan.

bluesapphire

Kismet: you said:

"As far as the Society using the courts that they declare to be controlled by Satan ... it would be unreasonable on our part to expect teh Society not to avail itself of such services to correct any injustice. One might say "Wait on Jehovah" but then we would use that as proof how unrealistic the Society is."

How do you reconcile this statement with the fact that whenever an injustice is committed WITHIN the congregations, the society says, "Wait on Jehovah?" I think you are revealing the classical double standard.

Either Jehovah is powerful enough to accomplish his will despite human efforts or he is not. You can't say "wait on Jehovah" for some things and not others. The fact that they DO go to court shows that THEY THEMSELVES do not BELIEVE in Jehovah. Otherwise, they would take their own counsel and WAIT on him to rectify whatever HE in his ALL KNOWINGNESS deems worthy to correct IN HIS OWN TIME. Isn't that what elders say neverendingly to people in the congregations?