I would really like to run a ground-penetrating radar unit through that garage!
Somehow I doubt the current owner would be interested in doing that.
Forscher
Forscher
JoinedPosts by Forscher
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62
KurtBethel visits Beth Sarim!
by kurtbethel insunday, may 18th was my big day.
i decided to go to beth sarim, home of the princes and ancient worthies.
so i loaded up the truck and rolled out, wondering what do you do when you meet someone so ancient that the roman empire was a mere twinkling in jehovah's eye.
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Are you a Democrat, a Republican, or a Southerner?
by zeroday inare you a democrat, a republican, or a southerner?.
here is a little test that will help you decide.. .
the answer can be found by posing the following question:.
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Forscher
I guess Republican.
Why waste the rest of my ammo on that scumbag if one shot does the job?
Forscher
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23
Odd JW visit today
by kwintestal inthere was a knock on the door this morning.
i was expecting a parcel so eagerly went to the door to find a lone man in a suit standing there.
he asked if i spoke spanish, to which i said "no.
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Forscher
Been there, done that.
Foreign language congregations serve the same territories as English speaking congregations. I personally know of one Spanish congregation which services the same territory as five English congregations. So the witnesses are instructed to only preach to householders who speak the target language, leaving the others for the primary language congregations.
Forscher
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Huffington Post
by 5thGeneration ini'm seeing a few jwd posters linking to and/or quoting things from the huffington post.
if that's where you get your news and opinions we are all in big trouble.. it's just as bad as people on the right getting their news from michael savage or ann coulter.
can't we all just find some middle ground?
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Forscher
I do check out Huffpo regularly as part of an effort to use diverse resources.
My primary bookmark is on Drudge Report. I've never read his posts, but find his links to the stories of the day convenient. For all the criticism out there by his critics, he mostly links to the same news stories everybody else reports on but with the twist of linking to the original story when possible. He also includes links to a wide selection of news organizations and other sources from both sides of the political spectrum, so he is a convenient gateway to a wider net.
Huffpo deserves much of the criticism leveled at it. The rhetoric there is every bit as extreme and hateful as what they charge the right with. They often simply write articles which are nothing but uncritical repetitions of left-wing talking points and flawed analysis from folks like Daily Kos and Media matters. I know, I check those blogs out as well. The hate spewed is often off the chart.
Forscher
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44
GB sidles out of 1919 and puts 1914 in the bin. (WT study.)!!
by hamsterbait inhas anybody noticed in many recent watchtowers that christ is now said to have "turned his attention to the earth in 1914.".
unlike the 60's they do not say christ "came" in 1914. the "proclaimers book " p137 says the bible students came to discern that "christ did not return, (even invisibly), in 1914.".
the way is now paved.
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Forscher
Interesting,
Here is the problem. The organization followed a pattern pretty much in line with what sociologists have observed in governments and large organizations for years. They began with a charismatic leader who was also imaginative and full of ideas (in the Soviet Union we see a parallel with Lenin). Next came an authoritative leader who concentrated and consolidated his power. He generally used others who were better educated to keep the masses enthralled with changes in the basic message (For the Soviet Union it was Stalin, a peasant who rose to power because of his ruthlessness and relied on others the way Rutherford ended up relying on Franz). Then leadership passes to one or two weaker men because the power grabber didn't trust anyone in positions of authority who might be strong enough to take his power away from him. Lastly power devolves onto a committee of individuals who are even weaker and spend most of their time fighting amongst each other with little real success. Because of said struggle the committee is further weakened because the rest will not abide potential competitors for power or powerful allies for their competitors. Thus, they become an ineffectual body with no imagination. Bureaucrats take over, wielding power to cross-purposes while the committee essentially stands still from its own gridlock. Eventually the organization or government implodes on itself due to the weak and unimaginative leadership
That, in a rough and short outline, is what Weber and other sociologists noticed throughout the years. I think we can confidently say that the Witnesses are in the later stages. A relative weak GB, made up largely of yes-men and weak leaders of the factions therein, is lacking in imagination and unable to break out of its inertia. They are relying on others, largely the Legal department where the only educated minds remain in the organization, to suggest how they should reorganize things and even what "new light" to come up with. Fear keeps them from contemplating really big changes, fear of legal problems, fear of losing the rank and file in massive numbers. But change they must since their own doctrines are becoming untenable. So the changes are small, and incremental while the GB holds their fingers up to see which way the wind is blowing.
The implosion is not inevitable though. Take China, for example, which has managed to stave off imploding by embracing a modified form of capitalism. They managed to hold things together by giving the masses an illusion of increased freedom and using the method of their enemies to build a strong economy (it must have been galling to them to allow it). The GB could stumble across a similar solution (perhaps going "mainstream" incrementally). We will just have to see.
Forscher
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28
Impalement or Crucifiction? Opinions please?
by Tired of the Hypocrisy inas we all know, the jw religion teaches that christ was impaled on a torture stake rather than crucified on the cross.
i have my own views on this and have recently been approached by a friend who also has certain views on the murder of jesus.
from my own reading of history and some recent internet sources, the discription of what the bible says happened to christ bears little resemblance to what impalement on a torture stake actually was.
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Forscher
After reviewing all the evidence you can't use any word describing what it looked like because we simply don't know!.
I did acknowledge as much at the beginning of my post. I accept the contention that all we can do otherwise is to speculate. So in that spirit.
Your two main points are not insurmountable. The posting of the sign over Jesus' head could be accomplished at least two different ways and still end up with Jesus on a tau or crossbeam. And the lack of documentation of "untying" Jesus from the crosspiece when he collapsed on the way to Golgotha does not rule out the scenario I presented. The writers may not have considered that little detail important enough to note.
Still, I do accept your initial point which I troubled to quote. The fact is that the Gospels do not provide enough detail to do anything other than follow the clues and put together theories. I guess the writers were confident that their contemporaries, their target audience, knew enough about crucifixion from personal observation to fill in the blanks.
Forscher
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28
Impalement or Crucifiction? Opinions please?
by Tired of the Hypocrisy inas we all know, the jw religion teaches that christ was impaled on a torture stake rather than crucified on the cross.
i have my own views on this and have recently been approached by a friend who also has certain views on the murder of jesus.
from my own reading of history and some recent internet sources, the discription of what the bible says happened to christ bears little resemblance to what impalement on a torture stake actually was.
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Forscher
Okay,
The problem as I see it is that the Gospels are not explicit enough for us to definitively exactly what kind of Stauros Jesus was affixed to. I have the pdf of the Latin book the Society appeals to and one thing the book makes abundantly clear is that the Romans used a bewildering variety of cruxes for execution. The variety of cruxes each had their own particular form of suffering and humiliation and which one was used was generally up to the whim of the Roman administrator or executioner and just how they wanted to see the victim humiliated and tortured during their passing.
So, the society, largely for christophobic reasons (referring to Christendom rather than Jesus Christ himself) sticks to the dictionary definition from classic Attic Greek over other choices. Use of the word by contemporary Greek writers doesn't even appear to enter into the calculation as far as Leo seems to have documented so well. That is where we stand on that one.
Personally, I think one clue in the New Testament may give us something of an answer. The fact that after having victimized Jesus with a Roman scourging, the Romans still expected Jesus to be capable of carrying his stauros to Golgotha. That is quite a ways to carry a piece of wood.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I've worked clearing forested land and have an idea of just how heavy trees really are. Even a fairly narrow tree of the rough dimensions of steaks or crosses are pretty heavy things even after all the branches are cleared off. Consider that Jesus was weakened by having received no food or water from the time of his arrest to his execution, and further factor in the abused of a Roman "examination," torture by another name. Further factor in the scourging which traditionally preceded a crucifixtion, something we know was done to Jesus, and there is no way any human being would've been able to carry a cross or a stake as illustrated.
So the stauros Jesus was expected to carry had to be a patibulum. Anything else would've been to heavy for a person so abused to carry anywhere. However, the patibulum would still be heavy enough that the condemned would be so further weakened from the burden that they would not have been able to offer any significant resistance to when it came time to affix them to the instrument of execution. That is how I, in their position, would have done things. That Jesus was so weakened that he could not carry it any real distance is a testament to how extreme his examination and scourging really were.
So the most logical explanation to me is that he was crucified on a cross, rather than affixed to a stake. I don't see how one can logically arrive at any other conclusion.
Their is further potential evidence to ponder. The society makes much ado about the Jews insisting that the "stake" upon which a criminal was hung and displayed be buried with the victim in conformance with Jewish law. The Romans, ever the practical people, would likely have done something they are know to have done elsewhere. Place a permanent pole, or stake, in the ground at the usual place of execution, to which the would affix the patibulum and the victim. Otherwise, the cost of wood for crosses or full stakes would've likely been prohibitive. And the patibulum would've been just big enough to accomplish its purpose and small enough to be cost effective. That further leads one to the cross as the most likely stauros.
Respectfully
Forscher
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Nephew Will Be Getting Degree Tomorrow
by snowbird inhe will be receiving a bs in education.. he plans on continuing for his ms and phd; his long-range goal is to become superintendent of schools here!.
he is a ministerial servant and can give very thorough and polished talks.. my daughter finished her freshman year with a 4.0 gpa in the college of business at the same university.. they're not your typical jw kids, are they?.
just thought i'd share.. sylvia.
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Forscher
Congratulations to them both! I know you must be proud of them as I am of my sister-in-law who is getting her associate of science degree tonight. She is almost as old as me, I am in my fifties, and her classes span several decades. Tell them that your online friends wish them the best for their futures! Forscher
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365
Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!
by Perry ini just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.
in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.
(intellignet design).
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Forscher
I am enjoying Aulde Souls's answers to his critics.
To get a little away from that diversion I'd like to say that I went to see Expelled last night. Ben Stein won't get any awards from Hollywood for it for obvious reasons, but he did a better job of making his case than Michael Moore or Al Gore ever did. Sure, he did divert a little by pointing out the obvious link between Eugenics and Darwinism. He even quoted Darwin making a Eugenics argument from The Descent of Man. And one could say that he drew an inference for his audience on what Dawkins was saying which wasn't really accurate. In Short Dawkins answered Stein's question about what circumstances ID could legitimately be considered by citing panspermia, in other words, under no circumstances since panspermia is also considered on the same level with ID by the scientific community right now. But then, one would have to know that to understand Dawkins.
My impression is that the real reason the Darwinists who appeared in Expelled are so upset is that they came off second best in their interviews. What were they thinking, that they could go into an interview with a Harvard Law School Valedictorian and not get burned? I guess that they've been so used to softball interviews from the media that they didn't think Ben Stein would dare show how narrow minded they really are. They should know better.
I enjoyed the documentary. Ben Stein made his main point about the American scientific community stifling legitimate scientific inquiry with a vengance. I've already made that point on this forum to the anger of some. I agree with Mr. Stein that we ought to be very worried about the suppression of alternate views in the scientific community. After all, we are seeing right now how that suppression for political purposes threatens to harm us all with policies for regulation of CO2 emissions based on junk science. We ought to be very worried.
Forscher
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Forscher
In the first congregation I attended the male with the highest level of education was a Junior College drop-out. I have no idea how far he actually got before he dropped out.
Among the women there was on ADN (Associate Degree in Nursing) at one point. Then another lady got an ADN and went on to get her BSN. When I got my A.A (Associate of Arts), I became the male with the highest education in my congregation. When I got my B.S., I continued to be the most educated male in my congregation. If I went back to the first congregation I attended, I would tie with the BSN for the top spot as far as an education goes.
Forscher