Posts by Bodhisattva

32

No Escape from Religion - Am I wrong?

by Perry in

jw
friends

since every culture ever studied has been shown to possess religious practices aka.

spirituality, the axiom: "culture doesn't exist apart from religion" would seem to indicate that popular ideas concerning the non-religiosity of athiestic tenets are merely fictional.

i have always been amused by the propaganda the non-deists (and sometimes deists as well) use to spin their ideology.

Bodhisattva

You start out saying that culture and religion are inseperable, then redefine most aspects of culture as religious. The circle of your reasoning is complete.

All societies strive to answer the great questions. When religion answers them, they often use the backing of a big scary god to say, these answers cannot be wrong and are not subject to change. When societies answer these questions apart from religion, whether they are athiestic or simply secular, it is understood that these are the best answer so far, but can be wrong and are subject to change. Of course the answers change in both situations, but in the former case it must be denied, in the latter case it is called progress.

9

The Bible - a hopeless book

by Norm in

jw
friends

we all know that people are helpless and unable to understand the bible on their own.

only by getting your hands on some watchtower literature will you be able to understand the bible.

for all intent and purpose this of course makes the bible redundant.

Bodhisattva

So, edster, you're saying that the Bible is a thoroughly modern book!

26

I got a nutter !

by Simon in

jw
friends

a good example of fine christian conduct, brought to you by "debbie.williams".. first email.

i'm glad that jehovah will kill you,yet!.

there is alot of things that i want to say but you know that jesus said in matt 24:9-11 that you would hate his faithful ones ,but to be honest with you ,we don't hate you ,cause in matt 5;1-9 says that we will be hated,so since we all know that ,than it is a pleasure that you talk about us.and other thing that i want to say is that people in the world thinks that we are crazy ,but if you would read the old testament than you will know that the jews were to serpart themselves from the other nations and that is how jehovah's witness fell about it,see when the jews would be around other nations than they would forget jehovah and they would worship other gods.when they do that ,it would cost them their lives.so it is good that you are talking about us and i would like for you to continue to do so .why?

Bodhisattva

SO SMILE WHEN JEHOVAH RIP YOUR HEART OUT AND GIVE IT TO THE EAGLES.AND JEHOVAH WILL LAUGH AT YOU!

Ah yes, Jehovah is a happy god. And a little psychotic.

92

How many hours are falsely reported?

by badboy in

jw
friends

in the january 1 issue of each year, they harp on about how many hours the jws did last year etc etc.. how many hours are possibly falsely reported?.

discuss,please

Bodhisattva

You horrible apostates!

I am so jealous.

Until the last few months before I left, when I would just write 2 to 5 hours, almost every hour was legit. True, there was many a month when 7 1/2 hours was rounded up to 8, and never quite made up for later. But all in all, my time was a legitimate as anyone else's, and almost always on time. The flack I took about being exemplary! I always had a hard time reaching the average. Four weekends in a typical month, at least one I would be too exhausted from work to get up on a Saturday. When I did, a 9 or 9:30 meeting for field service and a hard noon stop or regroup time rarely yielded more than two hours. Saturday afternoons and Sundays after the meeting meant hard work just to add another hour. Meanwhile the pioneer clique also put in all of their hours, but with return visits that criss-crossed the territory and coffee breaks, errands, sitting aroung gossiping, whatever. Even when I auxilliaried I never figured out how to be so lazy. And God forbid I try to catch up on my school reading while waiting around in the car. That would be a bad witness to anyone who saw us!

Bodhisattva

32

Watchtower Society visits Apostate Website!

by Rado Vleugel in

jw
friends

hello friends,.

i thought this might interst you:.

the wts is a regular visitor of watchtower information service, in the definition of the watchtower, an apostate website (screenshots of site statistics that proof the visits of the wts are shown in the article)!.

Bodhisattva

Rado -

I recommend you obscure the other addresses, since they may be identifiable. I for one was well into trying to identify them before I realized that it is only the two instances of the srv1.wtbts.org address to which you were drawing attention. The others could be fixed IP addresses or be susceptible to a Witness who works at an ISP and practices theocratic warfare, cross-checking times with logins to identify the user.

38

Gender discrimination?

by teejay in

sixty minutes covered this story a month ago and meet the press brought it up again this morning when rumsfeld was interviewed.... when stationing troops in foreign countries, the u.s. military tries to abide by the rules of the country.

in saudi arabia, the custom for women in public is that they wear an abaya, a floor-length, long-sleeve, loose-fitting garment that covers everything but the face.

air force lt. col. martha mcsally filed a lawsuit against the pentagon, arguing that the policy was discriminatory because men are not required to dress in traditional muslim garments.. when interviewed on sixty minutes, mcsally was so offended by the garment that she would not put it on just to demonstrate what it looked like.

Bodhisattva

teejay, expat, et al -

According to the NPR report I heard, this is not a requirement of the Saudi government, but a regulation imposed by the local commander. Lt. Col. McSally cannot make the U.S. government change Saudi law, nor is she trying to do so. She is challenging an order that she feels is out of line, yet apparently complying with that order while the challenge makes it way through the system. She is doing nothing out of line in my opinion. She is doing her duty, and if the situation were Blacks and Whites rather than women and men, no one here would think otherwise.

25

Divorce and Separation-2/8/02 Awake!

by Mister Biggs in

in the past, didn't the society always say that under .

they always cited the scripture that god is hating a .

divorce.. read the imformation above carefully.

Bodhisattva

Not so much in a bubble, Biggs. I only remember this because it was recapitulated in a daily text, not from the original article. The concept that 'only fornication' frees one to remarry has been much discussed in these forums. Experiences include former mates setting up surveillance in hopes of discovering that someone else's car remained parked overnight, or lonely men and poor single mothers being told that they should not even think about seeing each other till the woman's abusive former spouse remarries or is caught doing something with another woman other than slapping her around.

On the other hand, if a JW is widowed before age 50, you can bet they'll be hitched again within six months to two years. After all, your dead spouse will not be allowed to marry you again; resurrected people will not marry. At least so the WTS conjectures, and so it is law. So quit grieving already, move on with your life in Jehovah's service.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the teachings are designed to cause more pain, so that people will be hurt and desperate for the acceptance, conditional though it is, of the organization.

Then I realize, of course they are.

3

Time for a JC for the Apostle AK.....

by TheApostleAK in

jw
friends

just been called for a jc next saturday because of a few things i've said.

last nite 2 elders came over an try to "correct" me on the naos rev 7:15 thing.

you should of heard the arguments they were giving.. one elder gave me the "i'd rather be wrong and be in the org than right and alone" thing and one gave me the story (i'm currently working fulltime) about the brother who could of had a job or gone to the ms school (he went to the ms school) and if he took the job, he would of been dead cos it was in the world trade centre.

Bodhisattva

JT started a thread that introduced the didn't-take-ajob-in-the-WTC thing.

* http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=21722&site=3

To me, it didn't have the ring of truth, though no doubt someone knows someone who goes to the same congregation as someone who knows someone who heard about that Smurf that... um, rather, the World Trade Center thing. Besides, Jesus did not promise his followers that they would be protected, even though so many religions that claim to follow him have so many stories like this, where by doing something quirky because of their beliefs, someone lives when they would have been dead. Or dies a martyr when they would have died anyway, a la Columbine.

I once read a report from Bethel, probably forwarded from a family member, that spoke about an elder I've known for many years. He was a CO in a certain country, and the report indicated that he needed emergency coronary bypass surgery, and that although it was the first bloodless bypass in the country, he pulled through and recovered well.

The facts, as my relative should have known better than I, were that this fellow was on EPO for months before the surgery to build up his red blood count, and that it took him months longer than usual to recover from the bypass surgery. The only miracle involved was that modern medicine managed to save his life with one hand tied behind its back by a ridiculous misinterpretation of a book of myths.

15

sure sign of apostasy

by teejay in

jw
friends

there's one sure-fire way to tip off your jw friends and family that you're leaning apostate.... just stop insisting on calling jehovah "jehovah" all the time.

call him "god" more often.

talk about raised eyebrows and mumbled conversations over in the corner!

Bodhisattva

This brings back memories. I had set the date I would stop attending meetings altogether, having made arrangements for it to look like I was moving. I had a really good rep among the borg and just didn't want everyone to have to be all cognitively dissonant at once. In my last month I continued running the sound department till near the end, I read the Watchtower during the "study," and I probably had a Bible Highlights or Instruction Talk. The wait for the end was agonizing, but at least that end finally arrived - on schedule, even.

But the hardest challenge was giving a prayer that did not use "Jehovah" and did not refer to the Organization ("brotherhood," yes, Big Brother, no). I had been complimented on prayers before, and I had also given many prayers that - although I didn't desire praise for myself - I thought should have elicited some compliments. But this one got compliments even from my two inquisitors (never went before a JC, but came close when I mouthed off too much to a family member months before), and from the local "annointed" sister.

I was also trying to incorporate more Jesus and less Organization in my talks, as well as throwing in a few ideas that were slightly subversive, or expressed some of the more positive spin present in other denominations. I did this for two years with nary a question. For the most part these folks are desperate to hear something new, even if its a different way of expressing the same idea they've hear hundreds of times.

Bodhisattva

10

Have any given thought to...

by HenryP in

jw
friends

romans 8:18-25?

Bodhisattva

Romans 8:18-25 from the NIV:

18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

An excellent confirmation of Marx's statement that "religion is the opiate of the masses." It keeps them docile, unquestioning, lethargic. What, the Bible predicts we shall have sucky lives? Well, no sense throwing off colonial oppressors, then, is there? No sense abolishing slavery, no sense helping the poor. No sense working for pease, no sense promoting education.

Of course, too a culture where things were not improving even over the course of generations, this is just the sort of hopeful message that all ancient religions were built on. If there is no way to a better life now, the hope for a better life in some future promised existence should stop the peasants from killing themselves, and certainly will stop them from overthrowing the status quo.

Bodhisattva