Posts by TheListener

14

comparing WTS with Pharisees

by erandir in

i had a good discussion saturday night with my witness wife about how the society is basically a modern-day version of the pharisees and how jesus condemned them in his day and how he would condemn the society today.

does anyone have any good points or any insight into comparing the society with pharisees?

anything you have would be helpful so i could get my thoughts together and figure out a way to approach this subject with her in the future whenever it comes up..

TheListener

BTT

This is a fantastic question and it deserves many more replies.

I'm strapped for time, however I offer a couple of examples I've thought about:

-rules and regulations versus love

-rules and regulations versus using your conscience

-workarounds for thorny issues (i.e. blood fractions)

-treatment of those who leave or change their mind (i think someone mentioned this above)

The rules and regulations totally reminds me of the Pharisees. The pharisees went beyond what was written in so many ways. The WTS does too.

Should we clap when someone gets reinstated?

Should we give gifts when someone is baptized?

What movies can we watch?

local bodies of elders decide what color shirts can be worn on the stage;

can a brother count field service time for a public talk?

Can a brother count time for a DC or CA part?

Can we count time for working on a quick build?

What steps are required prior to baptism? etc etc etc.

45

All current JWs: What is this?

by AuldSoul in

the bible students in 1918 numbered very few, fewer than 6,000. within three years, the number tripled.. the "intriguing subject" they proclaimed from 1918 through 1922 was "millions now living will never die.

" upwards of 70,000 attended to hear this message proclaimed in germany alone.

the talk series had a longer title, "the world has endedmillions now living will never die.

TheListener

I guess I just don't get it.

Yes, the first century christians got things wrong.

No, the first century christians did not disfellowship someone for not agreeing with something they got wrong.

Am I right in that understanding??

I can think of a couple things that some individuals in the first century got wrong:

-circumcision

-eating idol meat

-john's death

Jehovah's Witnesses get things wrong.

Jehovah's Witnesses do disfellowship someone who doesn't agree with current teaching.

How is that similar to the first century?

If the WTS writes that the end is coming in 1925; then that's it - the end is coming in 1925. When it doesn't come in 1925 new information will be presented to show why and a new date if available will be provided. All will adhere to the current information under pain of everlasting cutting off.

That makes them odious not dubious

Especially when the organization directs that your immediate relatives cut off association with you.

61

showed wife the new km article. bad decision.

by freeme in

hey guys.. sometimes im really next to crying (better: im crying).

no answer.

" no answer.

TheListener

Hang in there Freeme.

You're doing fine.

Remember, you are a goo person who loves his wife and only wants the best for both of you.

Also, Jgnat's comments are spot on. Make friends with the cult personality and plant seeds with the real personality.

Good luck.

61

showed wife the new km article. bad decision.

by freeme in

hey guys.. sometimes im really next to crying (better: im crying).

no answer.

" no answer.

TheListener

Hang in there Freeme.

You're doing fine.

Remember, you are a goo person who loves his wife and only wants the best for both of you.

Also, Jgnat's comments are spot on. Make friends with the cult personality and plant seeds with the real personality.

Good luck.

61

showed wife the new km article. bad decision.

by freeme in

hey guys.. sometimes im really next to crying (better: im crying).

no answer.

" no answer.

TheListener

Welcome Freeme.

My wife is an active dub. So are my kids.

My situation is so similar to yours.

When I first started doubting and wondering my wife was angry. She didn't want me asking any questions or discussing anything with her. She told me to ask older witnesses whom I trusted or to write the Society with my questions. I refused telling her it was my business and I didn't want to involve the congregation. Besides, I said, what can they say that they haven't printed in the past 125years.

Each step of what turned out to be a fade cause greater grief in my life. She freaked out at every point in the process.

One night I sat her down and told her some of the things I had found out. Boy oh boy was she angry. She told me right then that I was not upbuilding and to never speak of such things again. She did tell me, however, that she wouldn't leave me if I left the truth.

Well, we still have our discussions but they're not deep and I don't beat up her beliefs. We have this unspoken agreement not to discuss the elephant in the room.

Most of our arguments are over the children and their upbringing.

I guess if I had any one piece of advice it would be this: Make sure you are happy and then make sure your wife is happy. In that order.

Feel free to pm me anytime. I have cried the same cry you have.

70

For Christians: Grace vs. Forgiveness

by AuldSoul in

jw
friends

i have been trying to sort this out scripturally, and would like to get input from christians on how these two concepts differ and/or overlap.

please be liberal with scriptures to support statements.

i think there may be others who are trying to figure this out for themselves, too.

TheListener

Let's face it, Terry and Auld Soul and even Kid-A for that matter all seem to have a bone to pick with each other. Fine.

Just do it somewhere else.

I want to learn, I want to help others learn. I'm sure many here are in the same boat I am.

I was looking forward to learning something on this thread.

I needed this thread to help me in my life. Is that sad? Yes. Is it true? YES.

Perhaps if we respected each other a little more and liked hearing ourselves talk (or write) a little less these kinds of problems could be reduced. hmmm....

32

Can the beast be slain? Should it be?

by AuldSoul in

jw
friends

on another thread i was responding to sentient and realized that what i was writing is what i truly feel so many who come out don't look at from a practical standpoint.

the individuals in the organization are not typically the biggest problem, it is the organization itself.

they call it an "organization" to hide its true face; it is a corporation.

TheListener

ooohhh and oldie but a goodie.

slay the beast slay the beast!

181

OKM 09/07 (english)- Just another brick in the wall...

by metaspy in

jw
friends

ok guys and gals, i (being the assistant to the magazine counter) have acquired the newest okm.. i have uploaded it to imagevenue.com: here.

hopefully that works!.

by the way drew, your translation was very close.

TheListener

Do you think a dub would justify this by saying as long as they don't study in a group setting or read other material in a group setting that it's ok?

Man this article is unbelievable!

I hope my wife freaks out when she reads this KM. She won't but I hope so.

64

If death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

by Orgull in

my first week of posts here were very serious and all the wonderful, encouraging replies helped me very much.. so now i want to ask something semi-frivolous.

(actually it's one of the many things that don't make sense to me about "the truth").

why do animals die?.

TheListener

If the Lion is going to lie down with the Lamb why is the circle of life so complex?

Did God totally change the animal kingdom after Adam's sin?

The entire ecological system is so complex, so intricate that if all animals were grass eaters and will be again that a major change would have to occur.

1

Virtual Kingdom Hall . com

by TheListener in

jw
friends

has anyone checked out this site?

i saw it advertised and finally followed the link the other day.

it seems exactly what the wts is commenting on in the 9/07 km.. has anybody actually used or heard of a congregation using this resource?.

TheListener

Has anyone checked out this site? I saw it advertised and finally followed the link the other day. It seems exactly what the WTS is commenting on in the 9/07 KM.

Has anybody actually used or heard of a congregation using this resource?