truth_about_the_truth

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Posts by truth_about_the_truth

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  7

  UN temporarily relocates to Brooklyn

  by littlerockguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/un_renovation

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  truth_about_the_truth
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  27

  144,000 going to heaven, based on what??

  by truth_about_the_truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  let's face it, most jw's believe that there is clear biblical evidence that shows that only 144k will go to heaven and rule as kings during the 1000 yr reign.

  when examining this topic without the aid of anything but the bible itself, it paints quite a different picture.

  you would need to make some blind assumptions to come to the wt conclusion regarding this topic.. jws take it for granted this scripture rev.

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  truth_about_the_truth

  Let's face it, most JW's believe that there is CLEAR biblical evidence that shows that only 144K will go to heaven and rule as kings during the 1000 yr reign. When examining this topic without the aid of anything but the Bible itself, it paints quite a different picture. You would need to make some blind assumptions to come to the WT conclusion regarding this topic.

  JWs take it for granted this scripture Rev. 14:1-3:

  1: Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
  2: And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpers playing on their harps,
  3: and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth.

  proves that this number of ppl, 144K, are the ONLY ones that will go to heaven.

  Here's the thing. Where does it mention in the context of this scripture that they are exclusively heaven bound???

  Basically there is no link between the scripture above and the following scriptures which speak of a heavenly resurrection:

  1 Thess 4:16-17

  16: For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
  17: then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

  Phill 3:20-21

  20: But our commonwealth is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
  21: who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to subject all things to himself.

  1 Cor 15:42-55

  42: So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.
  43: It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
  44: It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.
  45: Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
  46: But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.
  47: The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.
  48: As was the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust; and as is the man of heaven, so are those who are of heaven.
  49: Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
  50: I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
  51: Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
  52: in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
  53: For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.
  54: When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
  55: "O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?"

  Also, JWs automatically link the 144,000 with this scripture below in proving that they are this is the set number that will rule as kings and priests:

  Rev. 20:4-6

  4: Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
  5: The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
  6: Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.

  Again, WHERE IS THE LINK to the 144K mentioned in Rev 14?

  Another scripture taking about a first resurrection 1 Cor 15:21-23

  21: For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
  22: For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
  23: But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

  Doesn't it sound like all of the faithful will take part in the first resurrection WITHOUT A SET NUMBER?

  The only way you can come up with the JW doctrine regarding the 144K is to have a WT article "fill in the gaps" for you.
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  9

  Circular meetings

  by truth_about_the_truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  dont you love it when you go to the meeting only to hear them talk about why you should be at the meetings?.

  basically this is the point:.

  "it is important for us to be at the meetings so we can be reminded about coming to the meetings.".

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  truth_about_the_truth

  Dont you love it when you go to the meeting only to hear them talk about why you should be at the meetings?

  Basically this is the point:

  "It is important for us to be at the meetings so we can be reminded about coming to the meetings."

  Round and round we go.
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  23

  WTS financial secrets

  by greendawn in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone know who is/are the ultimate insectors of the wt's finances?

  and is there any transparency in their finances and also accountability to the public?

  can we really know what they do with the profits?

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  truth_about_the_truth

  This is an excellent thread.

  I totally agree that there is something fishy going on. I always wondered about this.

  If you really want to find out the truth about any organization...just follow the money. Finding out who the stockholders are would be very very revealing. I wouldn't even be surprised if they weren't JWs themselves.
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  36

  What does Russell, Masons and Satan have in common?

  by mnb77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  freemasons (aka: masons) are under the control of satan and russell was there with them...

  now we come to russell's part.

  russell was a freemason.

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  truth_about_the_truth

  So he was so secretive about his membership that he plastered Egyptian symbols all over his publications??

  OK fair enough.

  So then here's the next question:

  Why would a non-mason plaster masonic/egyptian symbols all over his publications?
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  36

  What does Russell, Masons and Satan have in common?

  by mnb77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  freemasons (aka: masons) are under the control of satan and russell was there with them...

  now we come to russell's part.

  russell was a freemason.

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  truth_about_the_truth

  Although Russell wrote about the pyramids and the Knights Templar, the pyramids are not a part of Freemasonry and Russell's understanding of the relationship between the modern Knights Templar and Freemasonry displays an outsider's ignorance of both organizations.

  I dont know about that.

  ?Our beautiful seal is an expression of Freemasonry, an expression of occult ideas.? (Wyckoff, H. S. The Great American Seal. The Mystic Light, the Rosicrucian Magazine, p.56

  You do know what the great american seal is right?

  LT, ok I'll read that material although it may take a while. It seems like quite a read. But I'll tell you this right now, regardless of what that material says, even if he comes right out and says "I am not a freemason", I smell something fishy.

  Actions speak louder than words. So do pictures.

  Queens Assembly Hall:

  Remember high degree masons are very secretive and are heavily involved in symbology. If Russell was a high degree mason, would he let everyone know about it in plain view or would he try to talk it down, deny it, even criticize it? Can we expect him to incorporate pagan symbology in a subtle way?
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  36

  What does Russell, Masons and Satan have in common?

  by mnb77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  freemasons (aka: masons) are under the control of satan and russell was there with them...

  now we come to russell's part.

  russell was a freemason.

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  truth_about_the_truth

  OK let's look at the evidence:

  I am very glad to have this particular opportunity of saying a word about some of the things in which we agree with our Masonic friends, because we are speaking in a building dedicated to Masonry, and we also are Masons. I am a Freemason." Charles Taze Russell

  What part of the bold text do you not understand?

  This was part of a speech that he made back in the early part of the century. It's in a special 1913 Convention Report of the Internal Bible Students. Under the subject of "The Temple of Gods" in a discourse by Pastor Russell reported verbatim on pages 120-127.

  Not enough for ya? check this out:

  Guess whose tombstone that is?

  Oh did you also know that the Russell family founded the "Skull and Bones" secret society at Yale University? Never heard of it? Try googling it. I'll give you a hint. It's not a christian society.

  Now show me the evidence that he wasn't a mason.
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  126

  What Was Your Greatest "Privilege" In The Organization?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  was it being able to join the theocratic ministry school?

  being a regular pioneer?

  "handling microphones"?

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  truth_about_the_truth

  My biggest thrill was holding brother Knorrs drawers with his # "33" stamped on them, dare I look inside?

  Holy shit! (literally)
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  25

  If the Watchtower crumbles will God survive?

  by truth_about_the_truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i found this interesting essay at http://www.jwinfoline.com/documents/watchtower_organization/if_the_wt_crumbles_will_god_survive.htm that i would like to share:.

  the dilemma .

  what happens when an organization claiming to be the only ones who speak for god has its veil pulled back so that many, perhaps for the first time, see the fallible humanity behind the claim?

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  truth_about_the_truth

  First God is created in the mind by mixing our own idealism and cultural stereotypes, then we imagine speaking to him when in fact we are vocalizing a censored inner dialogue to ourselves.

  I see this happening all the time. This approach is a total turn-off to the concept of God.

  This is a profound statement!
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  126

  What Was Your Greatest "Privilege" In The Organization?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  was it being able to join the theocratic ministry school?

  being a regular pioneer?

  "handling microphones"?

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  truth_about_the_truth

  When I was in bethel, Milton Henschel lived in the room right above me. I could smell the holy spirit seeping throught the ceiling into my room.