Mary, Ultimately as for any sect or cult to be recognized as an entity all of itself it requires identifying markers. Clinking glasses and raising hands is the same as not celebrating birthdays or saying "good luck". It's another nuance of the JWs that 'identifies' then as different from other fundamental christian groups. The more of these they drop, the more mainstream they become. When you can't tell them from other religions, they become one of the religions they protest.
steve
PS, I know what WTF means, it's just I'm using a MAC, and don't have access to smilies. Simon hates MAC's !!! (assume appropriate smilies inserted)
steve
stevenyc
JoinedPosts by stevenyc
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87
QUESTIONS FROM READERS----CHECK THIS OUT!
by Mary inseeing as i have the wt in front of me today, i thought you'd enjoy the questions from readers from the february 15, 2007 article on the evils and pagan origins on toasting or clinking of glasses.
the article specifically mentions how not everything today that was of pagan origin is necessarily bad, and sites "wedding rings" as being of pagan origin, but it's not viewed like that now.
then, incredibly, they go on and say that while toasting might not be considered a religious practice today, there's "good reason" for christians to avoid it------without giving any valid reason why other than: do as we say:.
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stevenyc
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Who has Crisis of Conscience book? Mine is trashed...need your help
by RedPill2006 indear friends:.
i had a personal copy of the coc book and had to destroy it (my whole family are hardcore jws).
now, i have the opportunity for a conversation with somebody and i need to tie in some information from that book.
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stevenyc
RedPill, there's about seven pages dedicated to that talk. If you want a passage quoted you'll have to be more specific. I'd take Drew's advice and get the talk from commentary press. It's about $5.
steve -
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JW's put the fear on using armegeddon, pat robertson..........nukes..
by candidlynuts inhe's prophecying again!
he must need donations to prevent it.
virginia beach, virginia (ap) -- evangelical broadcaster pat robertson said tuesday that god has told him that a terrorist attack on the united states would cause a "mass killing" late in 2007.. "i'm not necessarily saying it's going to be nuclear," he said during his news-and-talk television show "the 700 club" on the christian broadcasting network.
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stevenyc
This type of BS is priceless. To his flock he can't loose. Either something happens and it's "I told you so". Or nothing happens and "We all preyed, and God came through, Hallelujah, Now buy my book".
steve -
87
QUESTIONS FROM READERS----CHECK THIS OUT!
by Mary inseeing as i have the wt in front of me today, i thought you'd enjoy the questions from readers from the february 15, 2007 article on the evils and pagan origins on toasting or clinking of glasses.
the article specifically mentions how not everything today that was of pagan origin is necessarily bad, and sites "wedding rings" as being of pagan origin, but it's not viewed like that now.
then, incredibly, they go on and say that while toasting might not be considered a religious practice today, there's "good reason" for christians to avoid it------without giving any valid reason why other than: do as we say:.
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stevenyc
Nark, maybe it's a French thing, because the mixing of drinks to show no poisoning is what my wife (who's a Frenchie) says. BTW, she also says that if you don't 'look each other in the eye' while doing this it's seven years bad sex! LOL.
steve -
87
QUESTIONS FROM READERS----CHECK THIS OUT!
by Mary inseeing as i have the wt in front of me today, i thought you'd enjoy the questions from readers from the february 15, 2007 article on the evils and pagan origins on toasting or clinking of glasses.
the article specifically mentions how not everything today that was of pagan origin is necessarily bad, and sites "wedding rings" as being of pagan origin, but it's not viewed like that now.
then, incredibly, they go on and say that while toasting might not be considered a religious practice today, there's "good reason" for christians to avoid it------without giving any valid reason why other than: do as we say:.
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stevenyc
Mary, thank you for posting some food at the proper time. It's so confusing sometimes as to which pagan influenced mundane routine to use, and which one to repulse. Watchtower Food (I guess that is what you meant by "WTF") at the proper time indeed.
steve -
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Please help...lots of questions
by KanoasDestiny inquite a few of my family members are jw's, and i attended the meetings until i was 7 years old when my mom was disfellowhipped.
i have always had an interest in god but i truly don't know where i feel i belong church-wise.
i agree mostly with the jw, but there are still things that i don't agree with, and to attend the kingdom hall, knowing that i don't agree with them 100% feels wrong.
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stevenyc
Hi KanoasDestiny, and welcome to JWD.
First off I think you should know that the majority of posters here are either ex-JWs or disillusioned JWs. For the record I'm in the "ex" category.
With each of your questions there are two possible answers, the JW doctrinal reason and the likely reason. You seam to know the doctrinal reasons so I wont bother with them. So, I'll have a go at the likely reasons.
1) Why don't JDs celebrate birthdays? For any sect or cult to be recognized as an entity all of itself it requires identifying markers. Try it for yourself. Make a list of say five sects/cults and there will be some nuances only available to each group. Not celebrating birthdays is one such nuance of the JWs. If you get to read more posts here you'll see some posters talking about how the watchtower society is becoming more 'mainstream'. This, in essence, is referring to the organization dropping some of its particular nuances, or 'identifying markers'. It does this when those markers are interfering with recruitment and attrition. For example voting and blood.
2) Why do Jehovah Witnesses think that women can be a part of the 144,000? Well, technically they can say whatever they like about this as it's an obviously symbolic number. You know, the whole 12 X 12 thing. Because this is from a non-tangable source, anything you say goes. (Well, pretty much anything). You need to research on what brought this 144000 nuance about in the first place. The 'Best Of' forum here at JWD is a great place to start. But, briefly, once this little sect started to grow, they quickly ran out of tickets to heaven. They couldn't drop their 144000 policy so they altered it. Hence, "the earthly hope" slogan was born.
3) Hell? See point 1. This was from Russell. And, it is one of the original doctrines. It wasn't so much that he could prove that hell didn't exist, but, he couldn't see how God would torture people for eternity.
4) Why don't the witnesses read from the missing parts of the bible? Because they don't need to. But, you could bet you bottom dollar that if some ancient text appeared containing words which mirrored JW doctrine, they would use it.
5) Bibles, Kingdoms Halls, and Church? Calling a Kingdom Hall, a Kingdom Hall and not a church is all part of 1, above. The JWs don't consider themselves to be part of a religion or sect. Their thoughts are isolated or separate from normal society. Going to church would be blasphemy. Going to a Kingdom Hall is righteous. As far as the bible is concerned I would recommend you do some research of the authorship of the New World Translation. Once again the "Best Of" section is a great place to start. When you discover that there were no scholars involved and works of a spiritualist used in reference, then any point made thereafter is moot.
6) A disfellowshipped person attending a church? JWs don't go to church. JWs go to the Kingdom Hall! If someone not disfellowshipped was to regularly attend church, they would be disfellowshipped. The JWs are an isolation sect. You know the mantra: "no part of this world". This is one of the factors that make some people define them as a cult. The adherents follow not God but the "Faithful and Discreet Slave'. If you are in the Judicial Committee as a suspected 'apostate' then one of the questions asked of you is "Do you believe that the Faithful and Discreet Slave is Gods directed organization on Earth?". You can say to an Elder, "I'm have doubts about Jehovah" and get comfort. You cannot say "I'm having doubts about the society".
steve -
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visiting 'apostate sites' - spying - can it be done?
by unhappy inplease advise me - can i be spied upon.. i share broadband access with another computer in my home.
the other computer is the main access wireless provider for broadband.
can the other computer be set up in such a way that the apostate sites i visit are noted by the computer user.. hope i'm just being paranoid.. thanks.
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stevenyc
If you are both sharing a router to access the internet then your safe. To track your internet activity remotely would be tricky.
steve -
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JWD members why not write a book together?
by Qcmbr inone of the things that attracted me here was the links to extra special threads listed on net soup and it got me thinking.
there have been several excellent research worthy threads here and it might be excellent to gather together all the best individual posts (perhaps have a poll?
) and then publish them in a book or yearly 'best of' publication.
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stevenyc
Qcmbr, an interesting idea.
I've been thinking of something similar. As a reply to recent pro-JW documentaries and public awareness videos I had an idea of producing a campaign of short videos for you-tube which would create and larger and faster audience.
steve -
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visiting 'apostate sites' - spying - can it be done?
by unhappy inplease advise me - can i be spied upon.. i share broadband access with another computer in my home.
the other computer is the main access wireless provider for broadband.
can the other computer be set up in such a way that the apostate sites i visit are noted by the computer user.. hope i'm just being paranoid.. thanks.
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stevenyc
Are you saying that access to the internet can ONLY be granted with the other computer on?
steve -
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1914 and 144,000 questions?
by changtech ini was wondering if anyone knew some good websites that deal with these issues?
i am going to be talking with a very knowledgeable witness, who is allowing me to show my points about why i disagree with these topics.. so i need some well researched material to talk about!.
thank you so much :).
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stevenyc
The best place to research is here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/32/77937/1.ashx
steve