Hopefully she wised up, got a boyfriend who isn't in a cult, and doesn't need this place anymore.
Isn't that the whole point of this place... that nobody ever needs to come here ever again?
CYP
Check_Your_Premises
JoinedPosts by Check_Your_Premises
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Blood matters - unbelieving spouse
by HAL9000 ini am well aware of the jw attitude to blood transfusions - one would have to be deaf dumb blind and stupid to have missed it.
where i am coming from relates to my personal situation as a rational being and not one of the chosen.
i am sure that this question has been asked before, so you must excuse me on that count!.
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Check_Your_Premises
She is probably being honest with you. The problem is if you are in the hospital, the dubs show up, they will start pressuring her. You don't want her in that position. That is the best way I have found to handle these things. If decision making is questionable, simply remove that responsibility. For yourself, and for her. I would still see about getting a legal medical pre-directive that handles this case. There are other cases that are important as well. Everybody should think about and talk to their spouse and doctor about how you would want certain situations handled.
Your wife has been studying since 2000? How do you feel about that? How do you feel about the jw?
I am the unbelieiving mate (ubm for short, that just means I dont' believe the jw are chosen by God any more than you or I) and the blood issue has come up in very personal ways for our family. If you have any specific questions about how to handle what can be a very problematic and difficult relationship, let me know. I am a fairly experienced ubm, and I have alot of ubm friends here. We talk alot and help eachother out with ideas.
You probably don't have alot of people that understand you or your situation.
CYP
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Please help, don't want to lose daughter
by katy inplease help,need some advice.
my daughter married a jw last april without telling us.
i suspect she thought we wouldn't approve.
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Check_Your_Premises
But also note the difference. This woman is motivated to INFLUENCE her daughter such that the DAUGHTER has more control over HER own life.
Over-kill. I have yet to read anything in this situation that suggests the daughter does not/ or is not the master of her own life. If she chooses to let the JW world-view influence her, that is her choice. Just because she could potentially disagree with your world-view does not immediatley suggest a lack of control over her life. . She has the freedom to make up her own mind and I do not discourage her to hear both sides.
I think that the fact that the JW are influencing her life, that she is by definition not in control of her life. I am sure you disagree. The fact of the matter is that mind control is real. How else do you explain people like Elizabeth Smart, Patty Hearst, or the poor girl who was recently found a few miles from her home. What about battered women who defend their attackers when the police arrive? Are they free to make their own choice as to whether or not to leave their attacker? In all these cases the person was free in a strictly physical sense to alert the authorities, or run for help. They didn't. Their captivity was in their mind. Their captors used unethical methods of influence to remove their sense of reality and control and give it to themselves.
So is all influence equal? http://www.rickross.org/reference/cults_in_our_midst/cults_in_our_midst4.html
What about advertising, salesman, propaganda? Are they all the same thing? Are they all equally ethical? http://www.rickross.org/reference/cults_in_our_midst/cults_in_our_midst2.html
What groups like Scientology? Are these methods ethical? http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/7.htmBut once HER mind is made up, it is best not to make an uneeded distraction. THAT could cause problems which is what we are trying to avoid.
Are you saying that once her mind is made up as to the truthfullness of the JW paradigm, that she should never look at facts or ideas that go contrary to that paradigm? So does that mean that catholics and baptists who have made up their mind should never listen to the JW's that show up at their door? Does truth require we build walls and never allow any ideas that might question our beliefs? Or does truth relish such questioning because it knows it's quality will only be shown? John 3:20-21
We want a happy family, which can and does exist between Jws and their Non-Jw families. I speak from experience. We need to be careful not to let crass generalizations (ever present in Carla's post) influence too much. If the Mother (Katy) comes from this area of thought, the daughter will simply (and rightfully) pass her Mothers ideas off as uneducated. If the roles were reversed, you would be making the points in my argument. Would you not?
Admittedly the problems that come up between jw and non-jw family are often due in part to the non-jw. There is often a basic bigotry involved. Sometimes there is a misplaced demonization that takes place, where the non-jw comes to view all jw's as the personification of evil. I have never supported or recommended such a view. I have often spoken against the dangers of such thinking. Jw's are people just like everyone else. The challenge is always to seperate the JW as a group from the individual jw's bad behaviour. I don't have a problem with jw's, or their beliefs. I only have problems with how they behave.
The reasons why JW's do often act poorly are a direct result of their beliefs. JW's carry the myth of absolute certainty in their paradigm. Now the best a person can ever say about their views is that they have always remained intact in the light of any new facts or ideas. In this sense JW certainty is laughable on it's face because a jw would never look at any facts or ideas that might challenge their beliefs! But what really makes the JW myth of certainty soooo obnoxious is they are denying the one thing all people have in common; that is no matter how smart or knowledgeable we are, all are equally capable of self-delusion. When a jw insists that they are most certainly right, they are denying this very basic aspect of their own humanity. They are saying "only you can be delusional, I cannot be". With their certainty intact, jw's are free to run around being obnoxious and condescending because "they have the truth". Such attititudes are clearly defensive in nature. People who have truth don't need to resort to such toxicity and bombast. Imagine a scientist using his authority to threaten another for testing his theories!The mother will appeal to her daughter using carefully thought out questions designed to get her to be open to ALL facts and ideas.
The JW will appeal to the daughter by asking her to ONLY look at facts and ideas that support the JW paradigm
This is again a double standard. You automatically assume that the Jw understaning of the issue is incorrect and passed off as the "JW paradigm" (incorrect view forced upon) whereas the other view is based on "well thought out Questions" (ie, not forced upon opinion, but simply the "truth") .The Mother has an opinion based on her morals, so does the daugher.
I see no problem with her Mon giving her opinion, as long as she knows the difference between "both sides" and being stubborn with her own "side" of the coin.
My reasons for "assuming" that the jw paradigm is "incorrect" is because it has not held up to the scrutiny of verifiable facts. It can only be maintained by "forcing" and intimidating people into ignoring ideas that are contradict their own. This is simply intellectual cowardice (yourself excluded, I always admire the courage of jw apologists that come in here). If the jw paradigm were robust it would accept and dispatch all comers. Instead it hides behind things like legal intimidation against people who simply collect some quotes on a web site.
Double standard? You mean like calling other groups part of Babylon the Great for having "false teachings", but when the JW are forced to admit they got something wrong (generation teaching) it is explained away as "the light getting brighter". Double standard indeed.
My assumption that Katy would ask well thought out questions was simply me giving her the benefit of the doubt. Based on my knowledge of their history, the JW will get no such benefit of the doubt from me.
CYP -
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To all Active JW's on the board
by UNCLEAR inas you are all aware i am new to the board, this is my third topic post.
since i have come online and expressed some concerns regarding docturnal issues, i have been pm'd by several active jw's on the board pretending to have concerns also but then sending pm's to "trust in the congregation and jevovah", "talk to the elders about your concerns" and "stick close to the congregation".
i would like to make this known loud and clear -
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Check_Your_Premises
Have you ever considered the possiblity that these men did not have the guidance of the holy spirit?
If they are appointed by the holy spirit, then why do they make these dumb decisions you described?
Did the holy spirit lead these men to make these dumb decisions?
Sorry I answered your questions with more questions. But I don't expect you will find answers that are compatible with your faith.
Hope you are getting some thoughts together by posting here. Please continue! I think it is doing you some good. It sounds like you have been carrying around alot of heavy thoughts, and you have nobody to share them with.
CYP
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BURN DOWN THE KINGDOM HALLS!!
by nicolaou infirstly, do not burn down the kingdom halls!
i'm sure you can tell the difference between an attention grabbing topic title and a genuine call to arson.
i am not advocating illegal behaviour and neither would anyone associated with this site.. my question is; just how far would you go?
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Check_Your_Premises
Don't listen, DO IT!!!
What the hell good would that do? Who would that convince? Who would that educate?
What the hell is wrong with you?
All you have to do to bring the watchtower down is make information available. It is built on a factual and ideological house of fallacies. Making the information known that proves the intellectual bankruptcy of the org is all you have to do. You don't even need to provide commentary!
Quotes had it perfect! Now advertise advertise advertise the website that brings you the truth about the jw kingdom!!!
CYP
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Council of Nicaea / Arius / Constantine and the Bible
by MissBehave ini've been reading up on the constantine's involvement in the compilation of the bible at the council of nicaea.
as well as the ousting of arius because of his "controversial" beliefs.
it's been many years since i've read any watchtower literature...anyone know what the jw's believe / teach / preach regarding this subject.
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Check_Your_Premises
If the New Testament is read naturally it will become obvious that the early Christians had a view on this issue and it was a Son subordinated to the Father.
Actually, as I understand it, the trinity doctrine does not deny the subordinate role of Christ. Rather it makes Jehovah and Jesus equal in the sense that they are of the same "divine substance". Just as a woman and man are equally human, yet the woman is given a subordinate role in a Christian marriage.
Three seperate minds sharing a single divine essence.
I am not saying that makes sense to me or anything. I am just trying to clarify the doctrine as I understand it.
CYP
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New Light on 1914
by slimboyfat inso with all the study articles discussing new light some have speculated that something is in the works.
blondie pointed out that in 1995 there were also "new light" articles leading up to the generation and the "sheep and the goats" changes.
there was some debate on whether the new light on the generation was first released at the convention or in the autumn watchtower.
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Check_Your_Premises
Yeah, the WDTBRT book is the key to figuring out what the new light, if any will be.
To my recollection it is mostly a watered down knowledge book with all the controversial stuff relegated to appendix. An early, notable absent teaching was the "Faithful Discreet Slave" doctrine. I doubt they are getting rid of that. That is THE fundamental tenet of the jw faith. It is just so easily refuted. I think they are just keeping that one back until they got their hooks into you and you are studying the worship book.
I believe 1914 is mentioned in WDTBRT, however less emphasized. The chronlogy crap is in an appendix I believe. So no, I don't think it is 1914 that is getting the boot.
Is it possible that rather than jettisoning an old teaching, they might be creating a new one? Maybe a new endtime date? I doubt that since there is just to much of a free flow of info.
Is it possible they are making the changes much more slowly, since there is so much info available. Maybe it is a teaching that indirectly supports 1914 or is supported by 1914. At some point 1914 has to get dumped since it is getting to be a pretty outdated teaching. We are almost 100 years into CHrist's reign and still no big A.
CYP
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"Here's your sign" a funny website
by Check_Your_Premises inhttp://www.churchsigngenerator.com/
my picture said:.
now welcoming ex.
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Check_Your_Premises
http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/
My picture said:
Now welcoming ex
jehovahs witnesses
upset by the watchtower
membership in the UN
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Hi
by UNCLEAR inthis obviously is my first post, i actually feel like i may be sick but i felt compelled to post.
only if to just say hello.. my life has been anything but boring, pioneered for years, brought several family members into "the truth", and find myself unable to have studies anylonger because i feel unsure about the stand i have taken all these years.. i was previously married, my husband left the organization for various reason, we divorced and i recently remarried another brother, he is a wonderful man and husband, i care for him deeply we and had been friends for 15 years.
i also have a son from my first marriage who is 4, he is the love of my life, recently my son had an opertion that could require a blook transfusion and to be honest i could never deny him that.
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Check_Your_Premises
Hi unclear.
Welcome.
I liked your post. I think it probably helped you to write it. I find it is often helpful to write out my thoughts. It helps me to clarify my thinking. I hope you continue to post, and continue to hash out the thoughts in your head.
Thanks so much.
CYP
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Please help, don't want to lose daughter
by katy inplease help,need some advice.
my daughter married a jw last april without telling us.
i suspect she thought we wouldn't approve.
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Check_Your_Premises
I think this situation sounds pretty harmless and they will get along and be happy.
Until the daughter or baby needs a blood transfusion...
Sorry mom. Don't mean to scare you here. But I also don't want you to be lulled into complacency about this religion. It could be low in terms of cost for you. For many others it has been a far greater cost than any should have to bear.
CYP