A very Wam Welcome Krista, you are in good comany on this site. Has your mother still stood firm against this anti-Christian organisation? A religion of hate and fear, of the visible and material, instead of the love, the invisible and the spiritual emphasised in the New Testamant.
jaffacake
JoinedPosts by jaffacake
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56
first post, need to purge my feelings!
by Krista inthis is my first post and here's my story.. my father became a witness long ago and my mom remained a lutheran.
our attendance was sporadic due to mom's opposition.
they knew our mom was lutheran and that she kept us from attending many meetings.
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69
Tonight, I talk to the elders about becoming an unbaptised publisher.
by Buck intonight i meet with the overseer?
and another elder.
plus the older gentlemen who i study with.
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jaffacake
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/92081/1.ashx
Buck, This recent thread also has good advice, IF you wish to try to get your girlfriend out of this cult/high control group. What ever you do, please do not get in any deeper yourself.
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thinking of having a bible study
by Ellie inwhat do you think would happen if someone where to have a bible study with the sole purpose of asking lots of awkward questions just to get the reaction of the witnesses?
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jaffacake
Jaffacake - how are you finding the study. I would truly like to know? And what do you then believe?
They are studying with me because I have influence with my JW friend (it looks bad to him if they refuse). I can prove JWs wrong on every topic, just using Bible and JW publications. But I dont, I pretend I'm interested, but occaionally challenge things, When I proved they dont get information from God, using Romans 13:1 the guy admitted it. I think he knows I know the truth about the truth, but I keep leading him in different directions.
I am happy to look at his knowledde book, trinity book etc. Because I can prove there are lies on every page, I have tracked the sources to prove all the misquotes etc. I am keeping my powder dry for as long as possible.
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Buying old Watchtower publications
by Sirona ini'm having a bit of a clear out.
is anyone interested in buying 1917 edition of the finished mystery?
or millennial dawn vol 6?.
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jaffacake
Sirona
I sent you a pm.
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69
Tonight, I talk to the elders about becoming an unbaptised publisher.
by Buck intonight i meet with the overseer?
and another elder.
plus the older gentlemen who i study with.
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jaffacake
Buck
Do the research, and when you find watchtower quotes that prove them wrong, and contradict themselves, get her to look them up herself. That way she does not have to look at 'apostate' literature.
http://quotes.watchtower.ca/index.htm
Look into the 1985 baptism changes too, let me know if you need stuff about this too.
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69
Tonight, I talk to the elders about becoming an unbaptised publisher.
by Buck intonight i meet with the overseer?
and another elder.
plus the older gentlemen who i study with.
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jaffacake
Buck
In my last post the Watchtower asked what the record shows. See if she will research this with you in the coming weeks to help you to get rid of your doubts. Here is one example (posted by a friend on this board last week) dealing with just one aspect of their false prophesy & failed predictions.
Charles Russell taught early on that the "little flock" spoken of in the Bible meant the small number of true believers who constituted the "bride of Christ". The "heavenly kingdom" had supposedly been established when Christ returned invisibly in 1874, and the kingdom rule was expected to extend to earth 40 years later, in 1914. This year marked the end of the "appointed times of the nations", so the earth's leaders were to be overthrown (p 101 ), clearing the way for God's kingdom on earth . Meanwhile, the remaining "Little Flock" members on earth would be transferred to heaven to become be earth's divine new rulers together with Christ. Mankind on earth would not be destroyed, but serve in a 1000 year "probation" period under the new management with a goal of becoming perfect humans like Adam in the garden. The "little flock" would become "redeemer" and "spirtual mother" for all generations of mankind, having the ability to appear on earth as invisible spirits or by materializing into physical bodies.
Russell got the details on this from a man named Nelson Barbour, who described this very plan in his books and magazines. Barbour had come from a big movement led by Baptist preacher William Miller , who calculated through passages in Daniel and Revelation that 1843 (later 1844) was the year of Christ's return. After his prediction failed, Miller admitted he was wrong about the whole date-setting thing and called it quits. Some of his followers, however, insisted that something invisible really did happen on that year. Many others including Barbour came up with countless new end-date predictions along with new ideas and explanations on the ultimate fate of mankind.
Barbour identified 1874 as the year of Christ's return by "correcting" Miller's calculations and publicized the big news in his magazine . After 1874 passed with nothing happening, rather than admit failure Barbour started to claim that he was right after all, that Christ actually had returned, except that it was an "invisible presence" and no one could see him. His magazine nearly went broke because hardly any of his subscribers bought this story. But one reader--a young and wealthy CT Russell--was so impressed with these ideas that he became Barbour's partner in the magazine operation. Russell adopted all of Barbour?s chronology (1914, 1874 , 1799 , etc.) along with his specific views on the coming kingdom.
After Russell and Barbour broke things off, Russell started molding these ideas in his own new "- 1918 , rather than 1878, is now the year that the dead members of the 144,000 were resurrected to heaven.
- 1935 , rather than 1881, is now the year that the full number of the 144,000 was chosen.
- Some of the 144,000 will remain on earth for a while to set up the Kingdom, rather than the "ancient worthies" (Abraham, Isaac, etc.). A big WT campaign had promoted the idea that these "ancient worthies" would be resurrected to perform such a duty in 1925, and a mansion was later built for them in San Diego, but this understanding was eventually changed.
- Once the Great Crowd was identified (through 's "flash of divine light") a harsher view of Armageddon was implemented. Not only will Church and Government institutions be destroyed, but no living person outside of the organization could really expect to be spared from destruction--not even their kids (Riches, Rutherford, 1936, p. 98)...Many past generations will still be resurrected, though. In contrast, Russell had taught that just about everyone would live to get a chance at redemption in the new system.
- 1914 , rather than 1874, is now the year that Christ returned invisibly. 1914 is also the start of the last days, rather than 1799. One calculation in support of 1874 (as the start of the millenium) was that 6,000 years of human history ended in 1873. This has been changed to 1975.
- The end of the "Gentile Times" in 1914 now marks the beginning of the end of the present system, rather than the actual end of the present system as originally promoted by Barbour/Russell.
- The 144,000 became the "Faithful Discreet Slave class" who are officially represented by an organization. The earthly kingdom is now considered to have arrived to earth in a spiritual sense through this organization. This is why you'll hear JWs speak of being in "spiritual paradise". The "spiritual mother" has become the organization itself. In contrast, Russell had taught that there would be no true organization set up until God fully sets up his kingdom on earth.
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69
Tonight, I talk to the elders about becoming an unbaptised publisher.
by Buck intonight i meet with the overseer?
and another elder.
plus the older gentlemen who i study with.
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jaffacake
Watchtower 1972 April 1 197-9 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them' ‘They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them’
JEHOVAH GOD is interested in having people know him. Though he is invisible to human eyes, he provides various ways by which they can know his personality. They can know what to expect from him and what he expects of them.
One can come to understand that Jehovah is a God of surpassing wisdom by observing creation. This also reveals the loving care with which he designed things for man’s welfare and enjoyment. A second way to know God is through his Word of truth, the Bible. Herein one finds the full expression of Jehovah’s purpose toward mankind—why man is on the earth and the blessings that God has in store.
A third way of coming to know Jehovah God is through his representatives. In ancient times he sent prophets as his special messengers. While these men foretold things to come, they also served the people by telling them of God’s will for them at that time, often also warning them of dangers and calamities. People today can view the creative works. They have at hand the Bible, but it is little read or understood. So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
IDENTIFYING THE “PROPHET”
These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? The clergy of the so-called “Christian” nations hold themselves before the people as being the ones commissioned to speak for God. But, as pointed out in the previous issue of this magazine, they have failed God and failed as proclaimers of his kingdom by approving a man-made political organization, the League of Nations (now the United Nations), as “the political expression of the
However, Jehovah did not let the people of Christendom, as led by the clergy, go without being warned that the League was a counterfeit substitute for the real . He had a “prophet” to warn them. This “prophet” was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. They are still proclaiming a warning, and have been joined and assisted in their commissioned work by hundreds of thousands of persons who have listened to their message with belief.
Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a “prophet” of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?
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69
Tonight, I talk to the elders about becoming an unbaptised publisher.
by Buck intonight i meet with the overseer?
and another elder.
plus the older gentlemen who i study with.
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jaffacake
Is this the correct next step?
Russel, Rutherford, 1914, belief vs exercise faith, etc is just the tip of the iceberg as far as questions I have.
Hi Buck, not sure where it is best to start with her. But be kind and loving. Scriptures COMMAND Christians to keep testing their faith. How does she intend to do this? Perhaps ask her how she knows they were appointed by God, and when did this appointment happen (Answer 1919) Then show her 90 years of publications that prove them wrong about hundreds of things. But if they get information from God, how are they the only religion with a 100% failure rate with every prophecy & prediction? They claim to be a prophet (Watchtower 1972) Have her look up that Watchtower. Deuteronomy states that if someone's prediction in the name of God does not come to pass, they are a false prophet. There are many proofs of false prophecy. If you pm me with an email address I can send you stuff in the coming weeks.
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A question for JWs only please
by jaffacake in.
this always seems to be one of those questions i've asked before but which never quite gets answered by jws.
do you believe that jws need a mediator beteen god and men?
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jaffacake
I presume the answer from Bethel can be paraphrased as follows:
For all true Christians of the past 2,000 years, including all Jehovah's Witnesses until 1935, Jesus Christ was the only Mediator between God and men and he is (or was) a corresponding ransom for all. Joseph Rutherford reinterpreted scripture in 1935, to assert that the self-appointed Gov Body of JWs are the only mediator for JWs, other than those who claim to be anointed.
What does scripture say?
1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a corresponding ransom for all.
Does the Bible get any clearer than this? Where does the Bible mention the new papacy (ie Gov Body of JWs)
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2 JWs Sent Registered Letters For "APOSTASY"
by minimus ini was told that 2 "anointed" witnesses that had recently (on the night of the memorial) picketed in front of the kingdom hall were sent registered letters inviting them to a judicial committee meeting.
the husband had told the elders when they first called last week that the elders should call off the meeting because his wife had once again had major tremors and had to be hospitalized due to being sent the letter.
and that the elders should realize that they would surely get legal action against them if anything happened to his wife.
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jaffacake
If they anointed, then they are part of the FDS. They have just as much right to make and\or enforce “rules” then does the GB.
Perhaps many JW lurkers really think the policies, doctrines, and new light that is published comes somehow from the 8,500 FDS. This has never happened. They are not even consulted. These doctrines come from people who hold POSITIONS whether anointed or not. Being Anointed stands for nothing, but it allows the mostly anointed GB to claim some Biblical authority. The FDS are just part of Rank and File, unlesss they happen to hold a high postition.