class consciousness is defined as identification with other members of ones own class and awareness of its relationship with other classes.
a remarkable change has happened in the last ten years among jehovah's witnesses, and this is largely due to the way we communicate.. .
the internet has brought about huge social changes in the way we think, do business and research, and how we spend our free time.. .
But to conclude that there is an entire class of doubting underground ex-JWs seems a little bit speculative if you ask me
Logan,
Not sure what your point is. You use the term "entire class" as if this necessarily has some large numerical value. Whether there are hundreds or thousands of such people, so what? Of course speculation is involved but I don't think truthseeker was suggesting the liklihood of anything more than a growing minority.
i had a long talk with an elder i know very well this morning.
we had a talk about the religion changes, like the 1975 thing etc.
he agrees to me that the gb are not let only by holy spirit, maybe only that has a use for this organisation.
Jaffacake:I think you owe we all have an obligation to make the truth available to people. It is then up to him.Do we?If he would read ISoCF he need not be destroyed.If he does not read it, he is going to be destroyed? Get a bad taste from this sentence....His love of Jehovah and Christ can become stronger not weaker and he might experience real joy and Christian freedom for the first time in his life. You never know, it could help him to eternal life.If I push him I'll tell the truth and can prove him the bible is not the book he thinks he is, then he probably would enjoy any so called christian freedom any more. It will be a real freedom.However I think he is already free.
Danny, Perhaps not an obligation, I wouldn't push, but if he is responsive I believe the truth should be made available. What I mean is that he can be told the truth brutally, which I would discourage, or you can expose the watchtower whilst still allowing him to retain his belief in God and eternal life. Such a book would might give him a belief that he has attained salvation, that the watchtower offers no one. You cannot disprove the Bible, only that it cannot be taken literally, that it contains many apparent inconsistencies and errors, and it cannot be inspired verbally. To many christians however, this enhances rather than diminishes its value. He cannot be happy or free in the org, can he???
class consciousness is defined as identification with other members of ones own class and awareness of its relationship with other classes.
a remarkable change has happened in the last ten years among jehovah's witnesses, and this is largely due to the way we communicate.. .
the internet has brought about huge social changes in the way we think, do business and research, and how we spend our free time.. .
Firstly, welcome Tristram,
Truthseeker, I think there is evidence on this and other boards that you are right. Just how many people like this there are is what is open to speculation. The fact that Tristram said your post described him suggests there is a lot in your theory.
In my view, this class of people are like little gems and represent real hope for the future. They can do much good, and perhaps drop tiny seeds without other JWs really noticing, but I fear for them because you are right that such a double life must be a strain. But at least they are enlightened, which must be somewhat liberating.
i had a long talk with an elder i know very well this morning.
we had a talk about the religion changes, like the 1975 thing etc.
he agrees to me that the gb are not let only by holy spirit, maybe only that has a use for this organisation.
I think you owe we all have an obligation to make the truth available to people. It is then up to him. If he would read ISoCF he need not be destroyed. His love of Jehovah and Christ can become stronger not weaker and he might experience real joy and Christian freedom for the first time in his life. You never know, it could help him to eternal life.
hi gang:.
here is another powerful demonstration of god's grace.
read the conversion story of serena conn at the link below:.
This poor woman will be a million times better off as a catholic, or a protestant, than a JW or similar cult-like religions. It will do her no harm, despite my own dislike of much about catholicism. The worst thing is their belief, like JWs that they are the true church.
I too have been indoctrinated to be anti-catholic in the past, following a catholic upbringing. I would hope that those hostile to catholicims can recognise this is JW conditioning. Perhaps we should only describe it so negatively if we have had first hand experience, rather than allowing the permanent conditioning we experienced to produce knee-jerk reactions.
i was brought up a catholic, then learned as a baptised adventist in my teens that the pope was the anti-christ, and that only we were the one true remnant church etc.
the adventists did have true christian love, even if they were somewhat misguided.
when i drifted away from religion, i still refused to marry in my wife's catholic church.
Frog,
I dislike catholic mass, statues etc, but they don't worship statues & crosses. My 15 year old son is at an all boys catholic school, and yes they put these ethics into practice. I am very impressed. They talk about Christian love, not religious dogma. They have just been allowed to have a second specialism and have chosen performing arts. They put on high quality musicals like Grease and Guys and Dolls. Great stuff.
My favourite line in the prayer reminds me of what sets them a part from JWs.
Love of all people,
The kids and teachers quietly and unnoticed do loads of work for charities and good causes. Believe me, although I can never go back to catholicism, these are truly Christian people, despite the dodgy history and some practices.
(from one of the no longer brainwashed class who now sees people for what they really are)
i was brought up a catholic, then learned as a baptised adventist in my teens that the pope was the anti-christ, and that only we were the one true remnant church etc.
the adventists did have true christian love, even if they were somewhat misguided.
when i drifted away from religion, i still refused to marry in my wife's catholic church.
Frog,
I dislike catholic mass, statues etc, but they don't worship statues & crosses. My 15 year old son is at an all boys catholic school, and yes they put these ethich into practice. I am very impressed. They talk about Christian love, not religious dogma. They have just been allowed to have a second specialism and have chosen performing arts. They put on high quality musicals like Grease and Guys and Dolls. Great stuff.
My favourite line in the prayer reminds me of what sets them a part from JWs.
Love of all people,
The kids and teachers quietly and unnoticed do loads of work for charities and good causes. Believe me, although I can never go back to catholicism, these are truly Christian people, despite the dodgy history and some practices.
(from one of the no longer brainwashed class who now sees people for what they really are)
my motivation was not to "recruit" for the watchtower society.
i thought i made it clear when i stated that i am no longer one of jehovah's witnesses anymore and that i am on your side.
however, the impression i am getting is that no one is really understanding what i am getting at.
Welcome Do I Stand Alone, please stay.
I see a lot of positivity on this board, but frankly I find very few positives about the JW organisation. Those I genuinely thought existed have disolved one by one the more factual & historic material I read.
Please feel free to list some positives to help skeptics like me. One that I can think of is the many wonderful individuals who are JWs. I can find no positives about the leadership. Please try to persuade me of some.
i just read the listeners post about baptisms at the district conventions and didn't want to disrupt the thread.
i'm curious, why would someone allow their child to attend the kh or district convention and possibly be pressured into getting baptized?
agnes
A very dangerous practice which I can only understand if someone like Garybus is a walkaway believer and considered the JWs harmless, or even quite wholesome. I dont think anyone who knows the extent of the truth about the truth would dare to do such a thing.
now i only drive automatic transmission cars....because there is so much traffic and too many stop signs.
it becomes annoying.
i used to love driving manual transmissions, but no more.. the internet is one other thing that i wouldn't be able to do without.. how about you?.
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