The genesis of a complex world of persons, by successive stages of emergence from blind primal energy, through the development of stable atomic compounds, self-replicating complex molecules, the development of cells within highly structured organisms, the formation of central nervous systems, culminating in conscious, free and responsible life-forms, seems to be a miracle of elegant design. Its beauty is breathtaking and its final purpose, revealed in Christ - the transfiguration of all humanity into God, eventually, would be of absolutely overwhelming value.(see Ephesians 3:11 & 1:5)
jaffacake
JoinedPosts by jaffacake
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Plausible creation to salvation?
by jaffacake inthe genesis of a complex world of persons, by successive stages of emergence from blind primal energy, through the development of stable atomic compounds, self-replicating complex molecules, the development of cells within highly structured organisms, the formation of central nervous systems, culminating in conscious, free and responsible life-forms, seems to be a miracle of elegant design.
its beauty is breathtaking and its final purpose, revealed in christ - the transfiguration of all humanity into god, eventually, would be of absolutely overwhelming value.
(see ephesians 3:11 & 1:5)
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Do you think God is Sexist?
by The Lone Ranger ini do have some thoughts on this subject, there are some interesting scriptures that come to mind on this subject but i want to get other peoples opinions.
do you think that god of the bible is sexist?
what do you think it means to be sexist?
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jaffacake
just dissapointed, starting w/ the 1st rebel.
M Kirov Firstly, a Warm Welcome, if you are new here.
The Bible is full of laws, rules and teachings being sublated (fulfilled/negated). What is THEE message of the New Testament which Christ described as the law and the prophets? Yes slaves are to submit to masters too. The apostles were mistaken and short sighted on some matters, like keeping soeme of the Torah, but still produced inspired scripture. Scriptures as a whole show the truth, even through errors. Women being submissive to men or slaves to masters is superseded by Christs royal law of love. Any form of human subjection would be incompatible with the universal law of neighbour-love.
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Do you think God is Sexist?
by The Lone Ranger ini do have some thoughts on this subject, there are some interesting scriptures that come to mind on this subject but i want to get other peoples opinions.
do you think that god of the bible is sexist?
what do you think it means to be sexist?
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jaffacake
The answer is, of course the god of the bible is sexist
Yes, but only if we assume that authors of the Bible accurately understood and portrayed what God was/is. I was talking about whether the Creator of the universe could be sexist, and s/he certainly could not be IMHO.
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Did our ancestors really live for hundreds of years?
by pennycandy infor all you scientific brains out there .
.. the bible claims lifespans of over 900 years.
what does science say about this?.
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jaffacake
I believe the Bible is inspired by God but I also believe it is full of errors and inconsistencies. The Bible doesnt say dictated by God. Heck, we are God-breathed (Genesis 2:7) but God doesnt dictate all our actions! Many things in the Bible sublate other things (ie fulfill & negate at same time)
It is clear that like much of the Bible, like people living 900 years, it is just symbolic.
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Do you think God is Sexist?
by The Lone Ranger ini do have some thoughts on this subject, there are some interesting scriptures that come to mind on this subject but i want to get other peoples opinions.
do you think that god of the bible is sexist?
what do you think it means to be sexist?
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jaffacake
Some of its authors were through limited understanding of Christs true messages. Even Paul completely changed his understanding of Christs return between his letter to Thessolonica and later letters. He didnt live long enough to change his teaching on other things to the correct understanding. That is perhaps our job.
Evidence shows the Bible is full of errors, but I still believe it is inspired (God breathed but not God dictated) The follies of taking all its authors different beliefs and perspectives literally as Gods laws.
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You are the World and the World is You :)
by frankiespeakin ini've read over and over again in mystic writings this basic idea about "oneness" is that "you" are the world, you are making the sun shine,, you are everything and hence the world is you.
everything in space time is an illusion of the mind and thought,,, and that there is this nonfragmentary consciousness of it all, that is nothing like the the fragmentary nature of human thought.
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jaffacake
If God of the bible is real, we are at the mercy of his cranky judgemental whims
Sorry this has gone a bit off topic, but why I like this books perspective is because it does indeed argue that the God of the Bible, in the way most people understand such a concept is not real, but mythology or human perspectives to try to make sense of out world & universe. It also rejects totally the notion of judgement or salvation being for a selecy few from a single faith. It doesnt limit the issues to this part of the universe.
IF we allow the possibility there is some form of Creative entity or force (God is just a word), and if we allow the possibility that the Bible (written 14 billion years after the start of this universe) COULD have some degree of mystic truth simplified as Creator God is Love/No such thing as devil or evil but just negative forces of nature - decay/antropy...necessary for creation (2nd law of thermodynamics...?). Then could creation of the universe be a Creators way of experiencing self and mutual love (its natural state) through highly evolved beings. Creation itself necessarily includes negative forces eg natural selection, at least for a time...Us all being sons of God & part of God & connected with every other atom in the universe is actually consistent with what the Bible really says, but not what people believe the Bible says.
Is our skepticism of the Bible based on our abject failure to understand it on several levels? If we are all part of God/universe then salvation/eternal life is for all as we were created/evolved so Love can be experienced to/from the creative force. What we dont understand now might be somewhat more clearly grasped in a few hundred years hence due to advancement, evolution or whatever. The Bible is a mix of mythology, history, propaganda, religion, poetry etc. IF this guy is right in his logic that any truths it contains are quite the opposite of what most Christians teach, but closer to mysticism, physics and cosmology. I am interested in the new perspective and fromwhat I've read so far reccommend the book as I did Steven Hawking or Brian Greene stuff.
Unfortunately I may have completely misrepresented this half-read book by over/under playing important aspects. I never did take the Bible too literally, but rather than reject completely like I did for many years, I am getting such a different perspective, which my post has failed to do justice to. Hey- Im no scientist or theologist
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So who is ready, willing, and able to take out their local KH
by Check_Your_Premises inon a few threads now we have had the discussion of how to take out a local kh.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90925/1.ashx.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90940/1.ashx.
the consensus seemed to be that it would require a two pronged approach.. 1. help the newly df, da through loving support and association so they don't go back.. 2. help the new bible studies and return visits with a good inocculation from the "jw are god's org" disease.. let's not talk about how to do that just yet.
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jaffacake
It would be good to get something into the hands of JWs which starts out appearing to be an official WTS publication, appearing to support them eg on basic Chjristian doctrines (mention importance of Divine name or something very general typical of what Awake publishes)
Then suddenly, before they have a chance to avert their eyes, some cast iron proof of how wrong they are/have been by including a scan of one of their many quotes or doctrines that they dont want their people to know about.
Anyone got a list of JW names & addresses in a congo?
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How did you get over your silly fear of demons?
by embeth2525 ineven now, i still battle with a silly fear of if something might have demons or not...i know it is silly, really, i do, but i haven't been able to get over it completely yet.
does anyone have any suggetions for me?
thanks beth
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jaffacake
I havent believed in Satan or demons for a long time, despite considering myself as a Christian who has gone back to the Bible. First the Christadelphians, who influenced the original Watchtower point out why it is clear from the Bible that the devil etc are just figuritive for the natural negative elements in nature, necessary for creativity.
I am reading a Christian book now which shows that proper methodical scholarly interpretation of the Bible, shows that the Bible does not teach the existence of such things.
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You are the World and the World is You :)
by frankiespeakin ini've read over and over again in mystic writings this basic idea about "oneness" is that "you" are the world, you are making the sun shine,, you are everything and hence the world is you.
everything in space time is an illusion of the mind and thought,,, and that there is this nonfragmentary consciousness of it all, that is nothing like the the fragmentary nature of human thought.
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jaffacake
Frankie
Thats fair.
Some of points I read that made me sit up were those that demonstrated some of what you argue - that it is full of myths errors etc, inspired only like other works are inspired, maybe God-breathed but not God-dictated. That doesn't mean it is necessarily meaningless, unless for someone who totally rejects the idea of any sort of divine being or force. I have spent most of my life thinking like you, but I still think it is good to look at a whole new perspective about the universe, this one has certainly captured my imagination, and is a good read perhaps for agnostic theists or even Christians, if they are different groupings. Comments like being in Christ means being part of everything in the universe and vice versa are fresh enough to get my attention.
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You are the World and the World is You :)
by frankiespeakin ini've read over and over again in mystic writings this basic idea about "oneness" is that "you" are the world, you are making the sun shine,, you are everything and hence the world is you.
everything in space time is an illusion of the mind and thought,,, and that there is this nonfragmentary consciousness of it all, that is nothing like the the fragmentary nature of human thought.
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jaffacake
My background is one of mainstream, then creationist Bible based Christianity, followed by an interest in astronomy and science bordering on philosophy. I try to grasp elements of cosmology, quantum theory, superstring theory leading to M-theory etc. I have perhaps neglected the mystic in my reading.
Something in your post is consistent with something in a book I am reading today which is having a profound effect on me. It would take a while to summarise what it covers, and I'm not halfway through yet, so it is t oo soon to evaluate what I think yet. The book is by Keith Ward, an Anglican priest and theologian (here me out) who unifies all the above in his study of what he argues scholarly evidence demonstrated that the Bible really teaches.
The book is called what the Bible really teaches - a challenge for fundamentalists. If you can get past the opening line which states - I am a born again Christian you will find a strong critique on born again Bible based and conservative Christianity. JW doctrines are never mentioned but are blown out of the water by explanations of accepted rules for Biblical research. He makes a fresh case for better understanding the Bible, if read in proper context & proper rules etc. He makes a strong case for a different understanding to what most of us have been taught about doctrines such as;
- salvation
- evil & divine love
- sin & grace
- the sacrifice of jesus
- resurrection
- judgement, heaven & hell
- the moral law
This is certainly not conservative, and some are too profound for me, but at least some of the points made about all the mistaken doctrines of Christianity make sense following his non-biased and scholarly way of understanding scriptures, including those of non-Christian religions. He argues that Christianity is not just about this planet, and possibly goes beyond this universe, all base on Bible teachings that are more plausible than anything the JWs or most religions say Scriptures mean to fit their ideaologies.