Posts by jaffacake

21

Extinguishing evil and pain

by greendawn in

jw
friends

supposing that you were in god's position how would you deal with the basic issue of good and evil in the world, how would you deal with that part of mankind that refuse to stop hurting and harming their fellow humans and how would you finally extinguish evil and suffering?.

remember some people accuse god of being too soft and tolerent with evil doers while others accuse him of being too harsh and merciless.

a delicate balance is called for.

jaffacake

how would you deal with the basic issue of good and evil in the world

This pre-supposes that God can do anything, but I don't think that is what the Bible teaches. There seems scriptural evidence that God allows things without intending them. They are necessary evils to achieve a greater purpose. God is love, and love cannot exist unless it expresses itself in relation to an 'other'. As for good and evil, evil follows from rejecting love-ly ways through free will. But without such free will, unless we could choose to reject, then acceptance of love would mean nothing at all. If your partner had no choice but to return your love, then that love would be worthless.

To create a universe that can evolve conscious beings perhaps requires both destructive and creative elements as a necessity. I don't believe that God can do anything, but hey, who among us understands what is involved in being God and creating a universe?

I think it a mistake to think of God as a person or a being (but as humans we find it the easiest way to try to understand him/it. And a human mistake to think of a kind of super being that can do absolutely anything.

32

My wife is onto something ... and it isn't me (hint: 586/87)

by ithinkisee in

jw
friends

i gave my wife a list of the chronology of kings and laid it out like alleymom's kiss method - only i didn't actually mark the year 586 ... i wanted her to at least count out the years.. my wife is away teaching a class right now.

so it is just me and the kids at home.

anyways, i came home today and she had been doing a lot of research.

jaffacake

Wow, this looks really promising.

The important thing to me is that she is running the numbers through her head and 586 keeps popping up. I have not shown her the dozens of archeolgy and historical books and bible dictionaries yet, that ALL point to 586/87. I haven't shown her the stuff in Zechariah yet either.

Where did I read a post which listed all the historical references to 586/587? What stuff in Zechariah? This is one of the topics I have not researched because my JW friend is turned off by complicated figures or arguments. Is there a simple way to present the avalanch of sources that disagree with the JWs?

40

Anybody in UK on here please?

by LeedsBradfordEngland in

jw
friends

.

if so, i'd like to know.. clive (formerly of hemsworth, west yorks cong in the 1970's)

jaffacake

I was in Leeds last week, I'm in Newcastle. Welcome

5

Common mistakes of JWs & born again Christians

by jaffacake in

jw
friends

i would welcome views please, especially from those who don't rule out the relevance of scriptures.

i used to think christians & jws had almost nothing in common, and that can be true in terms of how they treat people.

but i do believe some in both groups have made the same kind of mistakes with the bible.

jaffacake

Sad Emo, I agree with you. The theologian explains why not to put your faith in any theologian. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0281056803/qid=1122590048/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_10_1/202-9610847-2603032

Classicist, You could beright, is orthodoxy the power of the keys, and is Babylon the great, religious fundamentalism?

Dan the Man,

Quoting 2 Tim 3:16 is a favorite of JW's and fundies alike. We know the Bible is inspired of God. It says so right in the Bible.

But this does NOT say the Bible is verbally inerrant. God-breathed does not mean God-spokn or God dictated. Genesis says God breathed into man's nostrils, so humans are God breathed, this does not mean he dictates our actions. The spirit or breath gives life and freedom but does not dictate. There are many contradictions and minor errors in the Bible, even between the 4 gospels. If there were not we could say there is total harmony, but the bible is not like that. The different interpretations by gospel authors forces us to make up out own minds about OUR personal relationship with Christ. Diverse responses to the risen Christ validates different perspectives within 'the Church'. I still believe in the inspiration of the Bible on a spiritual level.

James T, I tend to agree... one of the main doubts in my mind about the Bible, is indeed the fact that it does cause so much argument and confusion, but who can know the mind of God?

Another interesting comment, which is backed up by scholarly argument: The bible is an expression of the diversity of human responses to the revelation of God in Jesus. It loses its main spiritual function if we fail to see it is not the reincarnation of God's word. That took place in the living person of Jesus, and the Bible is only importance is that it bears witness to the revelation to God in Christ.

4

How do I copy a photo onto a post like you guys do?

by jaffacake in

jw
friends

.

any tips appreciated.

.

jaffacake

Any tips appreciated.

153

Why do/don't you believe in God

by LouBelle in

jw
friends

now for all the scientists out there this is not a question of proof or anything along those lines.

for my part i choose to believe in a god because i honestly believe there is one (though i did start doubting for a little while) i've always felt that there was more to our existance on earth - and that doesn't stem from me wanting to live forever or as a spirit, as i don't even know if that will happen.

i also believe in him because many many times when i could not carry on, on my own strength, i managed to pulled through.

jaffacake

I think I believe in God, but only because of science, and in particular evolution.

I do have doubts and alter my beliefs quite frequently. Please don't draw too many conclusions about what I mean by 'God'. I know how the Watchtower conditions people to put everyone into neat little boxes - like born agains, catholics etc.

As far as I can know, I am the only person who ever lived that believes just as I do, aren't we all like that, at least those of us who are allowed to be? I am inclined to believe in the Bible, but my understanding of some of its teaching bears no relationship at all, from what I have read on this thread, to what athiest seem to assume.

I love science, but the more we learn, the more we understand about how much more we don't understand. We better appreciate how much we can probably never know. When we think we are close to our destination we find another mountain peak, all very exciting though. The more we learn, the more we recognise that answers to the really big questions are as far from our grasp than ever.

Neither science nor religion are even close to explaining, for example, how life began.

13

English oral presentation: what are jw's basic beliefs?

by Evanescence in

jw
friends

my english teacher said that we are going to be doing oral presentations on anything we want.

my english teacher religious as well and she knows that i am into religion and that i should do an oral presentation on a religion.. well i know a lot about jehovah's witnesses so i thought i might to an oral presentation on them!

so to make things easier can you help me a bit and tell me their basic doctrines like the 144,000 and the jesus on the stake (and why they believe this would help as well).

jaffacake

Perhaps in your conclusion, you might want to mention the most important teachings of all, and make the point that these would not be described as such by most JWs, but true nevertheless, are probably:

The faithful and discreet slave. Christ returned in 1914 (invisibly) and during 1918 -19 he inspected the world's religions to see which was feeding people with proper spiritual food, and in Spring 1919 appointed the Bible Students (Watchtower) (Matthew 24:45-47) This is the most quoted JW text by a mile. This teaching is the most important as it alone gives them full authority over the whole world. They substitute for Christ and speak for God.
Proverbs 4:18 The teaching that the light keeps getting brighter as God gradually reveals information only to his appointed organisation. This allows them to explain away all former mistakes and wrong teachings as old truths, which are constantly replaced by new truths. This allows constant change so they can stay current and therefore not lose followers when problems occur with teachings.

5

Common mistakes of JWs & born again Christians

by jaffacake in

jw
friends

i would welcome views please, especially from those who don't rule out the relevance of scriptures.

i used to think christians & jws had almost nothing in common, and that can be true in terms of how they treat people.

but i do believe some in both groups have made the same kind of mistakes with the bible.

jaffacake

I would welcome views please, especially from those who don't rule out the relevance of Scriptures. I used to think Christians & JWs had almost nothing in common, and that can be true in terms of how they treat people. But I do believe some in both groups have made the same kind of mistakes with the Bible. My interest was sparked by comments by a leading theologian, so I explored further. Such comments as:

...I think a literal reading of New Testament statements about the coming of Christ in glory can be shown to be pretty unbiblical. In addition many have very one-sided readings of the biblical teaching about resurrection and life after death. They are extremely selective about which biblical moral teachings they choose to obey. Most oddly of all, their belief in the verbal inerrancy of the Bible is not itself based on biblical teaching.

and

Their view is selective because it accepts only some biblical teachings, and interprets imlausibly & literalistic........restrictive because it does not permit alternative interpretations........and exclusive because it seems to interpret the Bible in a way that excludes most people from the saving love of God...even excludes people who sincerly try to love God.

35

How the Watchtower Perverts Compassion

by metatron in

jw
friends

this what jesus said about mercy (matt.

"hence when you go making gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, just as .

the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be glorified by.

jaffacake

I love this thread and will save some of the posts.

Most of the New Testament says that faith is how we attain salvation, although Matthew's gospel makes it quite clear that some will inherit the kingdom of God through good works. But his examples don't include field service etc. The righteous are those who feed the hungry, take in strangers, clothe the naked, visit the sick and those in prison, etc. Not everyone who says lord lord....but only those who do the will of my Father...

59

Allow myself to introduce....myself

by pele38 in

jw
friends

i must say, i never thought that i would see the day when i would find a site about disillusioned (mostly) jehovah's witnesses, but low and behold...one truly exists.

first let me start off by saying thank you to the creators of this site, and i'll have you know that i've been lurking for several days now and i am just finding the time to finally log on.

i've been a member of the borg for over 20 years now, been baptised for about 14 of those years and now i find myself in the most unusual of places.

jaffacake

Rubyvixen

I missed your arrival too, WELCOME - its good to have you post. You must know this site so much better than me having lurked for so long. I'm a newcomer despite my many posts. Look forward to hearing from you.